Article from The Globe and Mail

[latenight]

Canadians hurl abuse at U.S. hockey peewees
By INGRID PERITZ
Wednesday, April 2, 2003 - Page A1

MONTREAL -- A peewee hockey tournament in Montreal became a trip into hostile territory for a busload of Americans who say they encountered such fierce anti-Americanism that they will think twice before returning.

During a four-day visit, boys travelling with their Massachusetts hockey team witnessed the burning of the Stars and Stripes and the booing of the U.S. national anthem. When travelling in their bus emblazoned with a red-white-and-blue "Coach USA" logo, they saw people on the street who extended their middle fingers or made other angry gestures.

On the ice, the Canadian players told their visiting counterparts that "the U.S. sucks" and dispensed other anti-American insults, the Americans said.

"It was a shock to go to a tournament and have kids saying this to us. These are our friends that are doing this," Brockton Boxers coach Ernest Nadeau said.

"We didn't expect Canadian players -- especially young boys -- would take things to that extreme," he said in an interview.

The 11- and 12-year-old boys from Brockton, 30 kilometres south of Boston, had been looking forward to the hockey tournament in Montreal. But parents who accompanied them said they were unprepared for the depth of anti-American sentiment over the U.S.-led war against Iraq.

One parent, Bill Carpenter, was so upset he cancelled his family's vacation to Quebec this summer.

"We were very offended by the whole thing," said Mr. Carpenter, who accompanied two sons on the trip.

"I understand the opposition to the war. But we were made to feel unwelcome just about anywhere we went.

"Montreal is a 5½-hour drive for us. It's not like we were travelling to Syria or France or Germany," he said. "As Americans, we felt in the past that Canada was our closest ally and friend. No one told us we were heading into unfriendly territory."

The trip soured soon after the Americans rolled into Montreal on March 20.

Their bus entered downtown Montreal just as hundreds of college and university students were marching through the streets in an antiwar demonstration. Police cruisers spotted the U.S. bus and escorted it to its hotel on Sherbrooke Street as a safety precaution. A police officer urged the visitors to remain in the bus until the protest passed.

The children watched as several demonstrators made obscene gestures toward the bus. A U.S. flag was dragged through the street.

"We felt horrible," Mr. Nadeau said. "How would you feel if the Canadian flag was dragged down the streets in the U.S.A.? This is a country that's supposed to be our ally."

That night, about a dozen families went to the Montreal Canadiens-New York Islanders game at the Montreal Bell Centre, a much-anticipated visit planned months in advance. In a gesture later condemned, the U.S. national anthem was widely booed by the crowd, leaving the visiting American children perplexed.

"The kids were just questioning, 'Why are they doing this?' " said David Cruise, who was there with his 12-year-old son. "It's hard for them to realize we weren't in America any more; we were in a different country.

"I said, 'They're booing our national anthem because they don't like us.' "

Mr. Cruise felt so uncomfortable that he left with his son after the first period. "Whether you're for or against the war, we have guys over there dying," Mr. Cruise said. "The next time, we'll stay in the States. I'm not going back there again."

The visitors say anti-American comments continued when the young players faced off against the Beverly Bandits, a team from Beverly, Ont. U.S. players say the Canadians hurled insults during face-offs and at other times.

"They told us we sucked, gave us the finger and said 'Down with the U.S.A.' or 'The U.S.A. sucks," Mr. Nadeau said. At one point, a Canadian player made a disparaging remark about the United States "and the referee turned around and said, 'I agree with you.' "What stunned us was that the referee, who is supposed to be unbiased, is agreeing with the boys on the ice."

His players "wanted to retaliate" against the Canadians, but Mr. Nadeau said he urged them "not to do anything foolish."

Denis Desrochers, president of the minor hockey team in Beverly, west of Hamilton, said in an interview that he had heard nothing about the anti-American slurs.

"It boggles my mind that the kids would say that. They don't even talk about it," he said. "I wouldn't tolerate it. Whether you're American or Canadian, you're not allowed to swear at any kids." On Saturday, Mr. Carpenter went for a walk downtown with his two children as another antiwar demonstration unfolded in Montreal -- one of several that drew huge crowds in a province staunchly opposed to the war.

Mr. Carpenter came across a knot of demonstrators surrounding a protester who, with an Iraqi flag and a U.S. flag, had climbed atop a traffic light.

The crowd cheered when the man waved the Iraqi flag, and booed the U.S. flag, Mr. Carpenter said. Then the protester doused the U.S. flag in kerosene.

"It went up in a puff of smoke and flames, and the crowd went wild. They were all cheering," said Mr. Carpenter, whose 24-year-old son, a U.S. Marine, was sent to retrieve bodies of Americans killed in the 2001 terrorist bombing of USS Cole in Yemen.

Mr. Carpenter tried to explain the anti-American displays to his children. "I said to my kids, 'These folks disagree with our government, not you personally.' "

As they crossed the border into the United States, cheers went up in the bus. "We were very, very happy to get back home," Mr. Nadeau said.

[Gav]

That's a very sad story. There's a lot been said about America squandering the good will it received after 911 but that takes it all a bit far. I guess the bad mouthing in the US press of France has made some people a little annoyed.

I despise extremism whether we're talking about Muslims, Christians, Canadian and also Americans. Some Scot's can be more than a little extreme in their nationalism towards the English. I just think that lifes too short and [mainly] people are just people no matter where they are from.

[hi5]

A lot of anti-war protesters are just a collection of angry thugs. They spend so much time fighting war, quite a contradiction.

[latenight]

It personally wouldn't bother me too much if it was adults involved. That would be just sort of the way of the world.


I just feel bad for the little kids who don't really have the ability to grasp why the were treated the way the were. it's too bad.


I know several us nhl teams had the US national anthem booed when in Canada recently.


I have season tickets for the local NHL team

I'm proud to say that since that happened, not only does the Canadian National Anthem get cheered, it is actually sung by many fans here.

[civiltech]

It's sad to hear yet another story of anger between our countries. Although this one seems a little stupid, and on a minor level.

I would hope that most American's and Canadians see us for what we really are. Best friends, best trading partners, neighbours, and in a lot of cases relatives! If we disagree on some points, oh well. Let's move on.

I think I speak on behalf of all Canadian's at this board:

We will speak our minds, and partake in arguemenents on politics, fencing, etc., however we will not burn your flag, we will not get physically angry, and will walk away at the end of the day knowing were still best neighbours! That zeolots are a small small minority on both sides that spoil it for everyone.

[MHS Fencer]

Well, I have to say that I guess I kept a significantly lower profile while in Canada. I was there that weekend, staying in the same hotel as the hockey team, and competing in the Montreal Epee World cup (but USA is only emblazoned on my fencing jacket and knickers, so only people in the venue saw that). I didn't notice, however, any hostility, even when it was revealed to people that I was, in fact, an American. Now that I think about it, there was some loud drunk guy ranting about how Americans are this and that (needless to say, not kind words), but every place has its crazies, and I don't think that it's fair to generalize about anybody. In other words, the idiot who canceled his vacation to Quebec is just that, an idiot. Also, keep in mind that while we may not like what people do (burning an American flag) we should tolerate it, unless it amounts to a direct threat of violence, which obscene gestures and jeers are not, unless specifically worded as such (ie, I'm going to kill you American @$$hole or whatever).

Just trying to offer up a perspective from somebody who was (mostly) there.

[thebigriddle]

Damn Torries!

God bless the Queen!

[pkt]

latenight

Pardon my ignorance but where in the world is:
Chozo Ruins, Tallon IV

There're always yahoos, bad apples among us.

There is Chinese saying - this one is NOT from Confucius -
'The green leaves and the red flowers compliment one another.'

Translation:
We need the bad to show how good the rest of us are.

Kids learn from their parents by osmosis.

e.g. this is from the Vancouver Sun this morning, Thu, 2003/04/03 -
Franklin Graham, son of TV evangelist Billy, head of the Christian group Samaritan's Purse, who has described Islam as a "wicked" religion said Samaritan's Purse is standing by in Jordan, "poised and ready" to move into Iraq as soon as it can to spread God's word while distributing aid.

"I believe as we work, God will always give us opportunities to tell others about his Son... We are there to reach out to love them and to save them, and as a Christian I do this in the name of Jesus Christ."

--)----------

Doesn't he know that the God of Christianity is the same God of Islam?
By dissing Islam as a 'wicked' religion, what is he saying about his own religion?
By dissing God and promoting JC, what's he saying about his God?

It is this kind of insensitive proselytising that gives Americans a bad name.
It is this kind of insensitive proselytising that gives organised religion a bad name.

One overenthusisatic US trooper did the unthinkable in the first week in Iraq:
They lowered the Iraqi flag and hoisted the stars and stripes. Luckily, some higher-ups saw the folly of this and soon the stars and stripes came down.

I don't remember if the Iraqi flag or whatever went back up...

It is just like POTUS Dubya let slip the one word 'crusade' with its baggage, afte 9/11.

As soon as I heard that I said to myself,
"Why did he use that word?"

Sure enough Bin Laden and all the Islamists hung onto the use of that word... And you'll never hear that word muttered again by the politicos.

Salaam,

PK

[thebigriddle]

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0850061.html

[latenight]

Oh, my location.


I usually change it from time to time. It's the setting of whatever video game I'm playing at the time.

That was metroid prime.


I need to change it because I'm finished with that.

Your the first person who's ever noticed though.


PKT- All valid points. I just like hockey, so this stuck out when I read it. Thought I'd share it.

[pkt]

latenight,

I thought it sounded like a scifi name and I was right. And I did noticed you changed your location again since I wrote the last reply.

So where r u, r u in Cda? Why else wud u be reading the G&M?

I came across the G&M piece u quoted - how can one not since it was on the front page? - thought about sharing it, but thought better. Didn't want to pour oil on a fire...

PK

[latenight]

Acutally I live in the US. NC to be specific. Grew up in Maine though, so I've been to Quebec tons of times. I went to school in Rochester NY so I have been on many a road trip to Toronto as well.

Alot of people at Carolina games sing the Canadian National Anthem now after Booing incident at the Canadiens game. Sort of a way to rise above it than sink to that level.

Yeah, the location thing is just a stupid little thing I started doing a long time ago.

[pkt]

latenight,

so you're a Cdn at heart, eh?


You almost fit the Schiller mould:
Having two languages is like having two souls.

My favourite city after vancouver is Montreal. They have F1 there.

If not for the language thing, and ALL the rental contracts / leases expiring on June 30, I'd love to move there.

PK

[latenight]

Never been to Vancouver, Edmonton, or Calgary.

Montreal is cool, and I like Quebec city although I haven't been there in years.

Toronto is a great city. Impressively clean and really friendly.

My family is originally from Quebec. My lineage goes back to a soldier in the Carignan-Salieres regiment. But that was many many generations ago and no one in my family really speaks French anymore. I can't at all.

And since my team is out of the playoffs (ok lets be honest, the Canes have been out for a Long time). I'm pulling for Ottawa. I reallly like Lalime and hell it would be kinda cool for a bankrupt team to win the cup.

[pkt]

Ah, latenight,

So your family was Canadienne.
http://habitant.org/cschart.htm
Lineage chart... the net is amazing.

----------(---

Here are some webcams of Vancouver
http://www.vancouvertourist.com/webcam.htm
This shows the alyout of the webcams.

http://www.jericho.bc.ca/webcam/webcam.html
This one looks north
http://habitant.org/cschart.htm
this one looks west. The bride in front is the Burrard st. Bridge.
http://bluenose.seafoam.net/
These 3 webcams show the flat side of Greater Vancouver.
etc.

If you think TO is clean, Vancouver is cleaner by virtue of it being a newer city. (I find Seatle dirty.)

Yes, I've to admit the Senators are amazing. Imagine if they won the Stanley Cup... If they did it'd be in spite of th efinancial situation.

PK

[latenight]

Hadn't seen that one before.


Yup, back then our family name was Bureau dit Sansoucy.

Got changed when the family had been in Maine for some time.

Go Sens!!!


Canucks are doing good as well.

Both my usual teams, Carolina for obvious reasons, and Calgary because Martin Gelinas went there in he's just about the coolest most friendly pro player I've ever met are done.

I'm also partial to Boston and Montreal, because of where I grew up.

[pkt]

I'm partial to the Canadienns also.

PK

[civiltech]

If your not a leafs fan....then you don't know what hockey's all about!!!

I once saw a Hab's fan in Toronto............by himself, on a bench, under an overcast sky, where it was windy and cold, and a rain cloud always hung over his head every where he went........

(There is a devout following of Montreal in S. Ontario, but I would think very very very very very very tiny!)

[three_hundred_fifty_five]

That's too bad. There is no direct connection between "Coach USA" bus charter company or the minor hockey team and the US government.

In any case, I think it's eye-opening for the anti-war protesters to see that local Iraqis are thanking the coalition forces for ousting Saddam.

I can't say too much about the Canadiens. They sucked this year and didn't deserve to be in the playoffs. But, I remain a Canadiens fan.