Leon Paul Sabre X-Change mask

[shamshir]

http://www.leonpaul.com/products/new_x_change_mask.htm



This is the most incredible thing I've ever seen, except I haven't actually seen it yet. If anyone has personal experience with these, please post it here. I'm very tempted to buy one even though it'll cost much more than an Uhlmann ordered from fechtsport-langenkamp.

The possibility that I may never have to buy another mask again (just bibs) is too enticing to pass up.

[Gav]

Famous quote about LP:

"It's all the innovation that you pay for..."

Haven't seen anyone use one but then I do Epee. I know a few Sabreurs I'll ask around and see what folks say.

PS. Why can't we have this for regular masks? Answers on a postcard...

[Dave]

Because pointy weapons could get stuck in or damage the "interchange bit" where as slashy weapons are less likely to?

[whtouche]

I own one. It's the most amazing mask I've seen and wouldnt buy anything else now. And having one, it looks like I wont have to
It's the most comfortable mask I've ever worn, the interior is all velcro'd in very securely so you can take EVERYTHING out and wash it if you have to, and re-adjust it. Mine didn't fit when I first got it, after fiddling with the interior a bit it fits like a glove.
Since there is no overlap between where the lame meets the mask it fits a little differently on your chin than other masks, but after fencing with it twice you'll forget masks fit any differently.
The bib is slid in thru a metal slot and is so secure it's FIE legal. In addition to the slot there are two rectangular pieces of velcro that secure to the inside of the mask, under where your chin rests. Between these 2 pieces of velcro there is two rectangular pieces of plastic, nothing special just thin pieces of plastic. These are there to prevent the bib from flipping up and exposing your neck. I usually have to adjust these pieces every 4 or so bouts, which is as simple as lifting and refastening a piece of velcro, takes 5 seconds and doesnt disturb the bib.

I've heard reports that the mask can fail inspection because the slot the bib fits into can become non-conductive. But considering the problems you save yourself on anxiety on, this is a relatively small problem, one I havent even encountered yet. If I do, I assume a wire brush will be all you need to fix it.

Well worth the money. I'd invest in an extra bib while you're at it, just to have one around. I bought one with the mask ~a year ago, havent used it yet but Ill probably have to for nationals since my current bib is all chewed up from my mask cord clip.
Just knowing that wont be a problem is a great relief.
I give it an enthusiastic 17 thumbs up.

[shamshir]

Ok, sounds great, but I'm wondering about this plastic thing. I can't quite visualize it. You don't have a digital camera do you?

The other thing is how easy is this mask to flip on and off? Or is the countour system basically a "secure fastening system" that requires undoing velcro if you want to take the mask off? Flipping up the mask is a common motion -- especially in practice, between group drills, to get some air, water, etc.

How easy is it to wash? Can you just dump the stuff in the washing machine (and soak the bib?)

I'd also like to ask you where you got this mask. Santelli and amfence both don't have it listed on their web page, and the authorized Canadian leon paul dealer doesn't either. I was thinking of ordering from the UK but the exchange rate on the GBP is nasty for Canadians. I thought I might save some money getting from the US but I can't seem to find it.

[damianip]

I have the LP Contour Fit foil/épée mask.

Once you get used to the fact that the mask doesn't have to be tight to be secure, it's great.

The mask flips up and stays, probably more securely than my previous Negrini masks. About the only drawback I can think of is that, compared to the Negrini FIE, it's a bit warmer. However, the bib is more protective due to the increased padding.

I'm very pleased with it, and it is very adjustable. I, too, wish the bib was replaceable as it is with the sabre version, but, I guess one can't have everything.

Paolo

[whtouche]

as damianip said, it's very easy to take on and off or just flip up and let rest on your head.
As far as washing...I believe that the padding on the inside is machine washable, and you can pull it all out as it's velcro'd in. I havent washed the interior of mine yet so Im not sure.

I ordered mine directly from leon paul in england, as that's the only place I found who carried it. I emailed and called santelli, they told me they didnt carry it because it hadnt been FIE approved yet. Corrospondance with leon paul via email confirmed from them, that the FIE had approved it, and a rep. from leon paul even posted on this board a while back in response to one of my questions. So apparntly santelli dropped the ball.
As far as the plastic thing..I knew trying to explain that would cause more problems..hm. I don't have my d.cam here in my dorm room, it's at home. And broken anyways.
ok. Go here:
http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/Onl...sories_39.html
The first picture on the page is a replacement bib for the mask. You can see the two rectangular pieces of velcro jutting off from it. Picture two small rectangular pieces of plastic, smaller in width but longer than the velcro you see in the picture.
The strips sit ~1/2 way in a small pocket on the bib behind the velcro tabs, which are then fastened onto two similar velcro tabs on the inside of the mask.
I hope that's clear enough...if not, let me know.

[damianip]

Originally posted by whtouche
SNIP!!!

I ordered mine directly from leon paul in england, as that's the only place I found who carried it. I emailed and called santelli, they told me they didnt carry it because it hadnt been FIE approved yet. Corrospondance with leon paul via email confirmed from them, that the FIE had approved it, and a rep. from leon paul even posted on this board a while back in response to one of my questions. So apparntly santelli dropped the ball.


SNIP!!!

Ah Santelli, they survive on reputation alone.

Contrary to what the folks at Santelli think, they carry the mask. They are the vendor from whom I purchased it. They also now list it on their web site. I believe it costs a not-so-cheap 189 USD.

BTW, mine has the FIE mark on the bib.

Paolo

[shamshir]

I'm just having trouble figuring out what these plastic bits are for. What do you mean "prevent the bib from flipping up" ? If the bib is secure in the aluminum slot, I assumed the velcro was just there to secure the portion of the bib that overlaps into the inside of the mask on the bottom part.

Are these plastic bits not doing their job that you have to re-adjust every four bouts? This mask sounds awesome, but if you have to twiddle with it every four bouts maybe it's not worth it.

Other questions. The mask cage -- is it the Uhlmann/Allstar style, where the front is sort of "pointy" (or has something like a peak, right down the middle) or is it completely rounded or oval at the front, like Prieur/Soudet masks. I'm betting it's pointy, because the other LP masks are kinda like that.

The inside bits. Let me get this straight. There is one inside bit that goes under your chin and wraps around the side to protect the ears. This goes in on top of the part of the bib that goes inside the mask (or does none of the bib, except the velcro straps, go inside?) There is another inside bit that is for the forehead and the top of the head, this is the one with the coolmax fabric.

Finally, there is a disc shaped thing instead of a tongue, which is held in place by one strap slotted through it, going horizontal (like most straps) and one strap going from the disc to the top of the mask. This seems more secure to me, but it begs the question, how are the straps tightened? Just like regular horizontal straps, or do you pull on them like backpack straps?

Oh, one more thing: do you find that the material for the inside padding is prone to wear and tear? And the lame fabric itself -- is it flimsier than the Uhlmann/Allstar fabric, or about the same?

[shamshir]

Ok, are those plastic things actually inside the velcro straps? If so I can see how they would be attached to the straps on the inside of the mask, but I don't get what the plastic is for. Is it to somehow reinforce the strength of the velcro?

Maybe my problem is that I thought the bib is actually secured by the metal slot, like the slot somehow clamps down on it, but if it just slides in, and the bib is fixed by velcro, isn't that sort of dangerous? then again if it's FIE approved it should pass all the safety standards.

[whtouche]

The bib is slid into a slot that is just big enough to accomodate it. According to leon paul it would take one ton of force to pull it out, and this is plenty strong and FIE legal. When I say the plastic tabs are to prevent the bib from flipping up I mean turning inside out kindof.
Take your mask and flip the bib up/inside out so that your neck is exposed. That's what I mean.
As far as the plastic pieces being inside the velcro, yeah I guess you could say that.
|I|
think of the I as the plastic, and the | | is the velcro. The velcro is fastened around the plastic, which serves the function stated above.
None of the bib is inside the mask, except for the velcro bits you can see in the picture in the link I posted.
The cage of the mask is the allstar style you stated.
As far as the inside padding goes, as I said there are no parts of the bib inside the mask, the padding is secured to velcro straps that are bolted to the inside of the mask.
As far as adjusting the strap behind your head, it's basically 4 pieces of elastic/velcro. One like you said from the top, is fixed to a piece of velcro in the mask, the other side loops around a slot in the top of the disk. The fron the sides there is one piece of elastic velcro on the left, and one on the right, secured to velcro in the mask, which then attach to another piece of stretch velcro in the middle. This piece loops thru the disk.
It's really not that complicated just look at the pictures of the disk and you'll understand.

As far as readjusting the plastic pieces every few bouts, it's not absolutely necessary, but since the plastic is basically between two pieces of velcro and there's alot of movement during fencing the pieces sometimes eek their way out between the straps.
Ack, I give too much confusing detail. I wish my camera was working Im not sure there's much more I can say differently..

[Gav]

I have an FIE contour fit mask. I have to say that I'm very pleased with it. I find the cup that holds it snugly on the back irritates the back of my head [due to sweat pooling there - ick] so I just removed it. Now that I've done that it's fine and light as well! Because there is no metal bar at the back the mask feels a lighter and just generally seems to fit better.