Iraq War Thread: Pics of POWs?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally posted by Gav
It isn't 'unpatriotic' to question the war. Nor does questioning the wat mean you do not support the troops. In fact by question ing the war you are questioning why the troops were sent into conflict. Like me sitting at this keyboard they are just doing their job. I would suspect that the vast majority of soldiers couldn't give rats a$$ what we think of what they are doing. They are fighting a war, something that they have been trained for, not passing political comment on the Hussein regime. So by questioning the war you are questioning the reasons the troops were sent in not the troops themselves.

I would go so far as to say that a US citizen voicing his/her opinion on the war IS being patriotic...not in terms of supporting the troops who are fighting & dying in a strangte land, but by taking advantage of the freedoms of expression those SAME SOLDIERS have died to ensure.

Feel free to protest...just remember to be thankful that you CAN protest!

[pkt]

Gav,

to response to Moon was excellently written.

BTW, Did the RCPC 'borrowed the crest from the SAS? "He who dares wins"

Originally posted by Gav
"Has anyone else noticed the actual use of doublespeak recently? In the UK MP's are not allowed to call each other liars so instead they refer to each other's 'untruths'. A clear case of doublespeak taken directly from 1984!
doubleplusungood

This is not doublespeak, it's called parliamentary decorum and parliamentary previleges. It's the same in the parliament and legislatures here in Canada or for that matter any place using the British parlaimentary system.

One may call another in the House a 'liar' on pains of expulsion by the Speaker if one chooses not to retract the name.

The other side of the coin is that inside the house, one can make inflamatory, libellous statements that if uttered outside the house one would be liable to law suits.


PK

[civiltech]

Sort of.

As a MP in the House of Commons you can say anything you like. You can swear, make accusations, etc. without worry of lany legal backlash. You don't require double speak or whateve here. However, if your going to call someone a liar in a public forum, you better have your bases covered, or else you'lll be accused of grandstanding. The speaker will not make an issue unless your presentation gets off course from the running of gov't. Very often you will hear all sides call eachother names, make outrageous accusations, take their opponents comments out of context etc. When reporters ask them to repeat there comments outside the house, they don't! They are only protected in the house!

The Speaker of the House will eject anyone who gets "out of hand." This happens from time to time. The last time I can rember here in the provincial legislature was when Dalton McGuinty, and Mike Harris got into a name calling dispute, and then just started with an all out verbal fight. Nothing was being accomplished, the Speaker could not interject, and finally booted the both of them.

Whether they continued the "discussion" out back behind Queen's park is another story!

[Gav]

Did the RCPC 'borrowed the crest from the SAS? "He who dares wins"

Actually no we didn't. Originally we ran a competition amongst some of the kids for a design (years ago). The badge was just the best one chosen - it represents the Lady of the Lake. Funnily enough some people have thought the hand holding the sword is the 'Red Hand of Ulster'.

This is not doublespeak, it's called parliamentary decorum and parliamentary previleges. It's the same in the parliament and legislatures here in Canada or for that matter any place using the British parlaimentary system.

I never considered it in that light - which makes sense - however I just think it all sounds more than a bit Orwellian. Some day people might start talking like that in the street - that's when I will definitely start to worry.

[thebigriddle]

We all carry the burden of question the our government and their motives. You cannot assume everything that is being told you is true. That is would be naive. I was in military for a long time. Being told a lie or not talking about something goes hand in hand. The whole point of the first admendment is to allow the ideas to spread. Our founding father were told basically to shut by the British and do as you told. Of course if you allow a government to a get a foothold you will allow for tyranny. So far since 9-11 all I have seen more and bills being passed and more laws being created. You are only free if you willing to die for it. I could go through an explain to you all the whole history. Who's who in the zoo. You need to see who is funding what and why. Who went where and why. Do you know your politicians, their families background. We all should know that Saddam was a CIA op and he was good buddies with Bush sr. How about the Bush -Bin Laden family connection. The Bin Laden family constructed all the barracks for our GI in Saudia Arabia. And the Osama was funded by the CIA when George the first was head of the CIA. How what a short memory we have. It is said we are pawns, we are less then that we are nothing to them.

[pkt]

ah,

you've hit the nail on the head with
"...It is said we are pawns, we are less then that we are nothing to them."

One of the coaches I know flew Hercs for the Cdn Armed Forces in the 70s and that's the same conclusion he came to. And he's an officer...and he's most bitter about that.

Remember how I keep repeating that a government has no morals. It only acts in its best interest. Everybody else be damned. And as a citizen of any country you'll want your politicans to act in no other way.

That's realpolitik. Get used to it.

PK

[falcon]

hi from middle east,

Just wana to say No one wants this WAR but, I'm not with who's saying that "I do NOT want war.... it's happening".

Bosh and American Jew were planing for years for this war and you are saying it's happening. The US lost much more troops then what the media says. The troops ur sending them ur support don't need them ,they need clean war.
they need clean administrations.

You may aske ur self why about 3000 jews employee were not in the World Trade Center when the plain crashed into it !!!

"Theirs was a giant race, before the flood."

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I'm thinking about joining the millitary, because I support the war, I think that its wrong to support this war and not be part of it. Do you get what I'm saying... I feel rather filthy not being over seas with our soldiers yet supporting the war , I feel like a hypocrit. As for the death penalty, I guess I support it, but I'm not sure I would if I looked a dying man in the eyes. Could you look a dying man in the eyes, as he's taking that lethal dose?

[telkanuru]

Just lovely. We have our own civil war

From a practical standpoint (and trying to steer back to the orignal subject), it seems coldly logical for the insurgants to shoot american POWs. Unlike the US, they have nowhere to take any number of prisoners. They can't build camps, etc. Furthermore, holding US prisoners has been shown to be just begging for a raid where they could get captured/shot. Besides the handful of hostages, I never expected them to take prisoners of war. Heck, America dosn't. They take 'enemy combatants', because the war is 'over'. Where the devil is Saddam, anyway? We may have him, but he's gone and disappeared again. Mabey he's with Cheny in an undisclosed location.

Folly, madness, and despair.

[telkanuru]

Oh, right, and having POWS rescued can boost morale, so an additional reason for the insurgants not to take them.

[Inquartata]

Hey, I'd guess that evil people have all sorts of "good reasons" for the things they do. These do not amount to mitigating circumstances, however...

[laughingduelist]

Doesn't ANYONE want to mention the fact that one of our female POWs was rescued by US troops today?

Why is that important? Should we treat a female POW any different from a male POW? Is her rescue somehow more important than the rescue of a male POW?

[Soldier]

The idea of protecting/rescuing women, even more than men, is deeply ingrained in men, and has been for as long as we've been around. It started as simple biological good sense, then became part of society (chivalry, etc.), and now is becoming just a biological reaction again as people make arguments like yours above.

[MikeHarm]

After decades of endless violence on television, movies, videogames etc, I suspect a lot of folks are probably desensitived to death to the point it'd scare us if we thought about it too much.

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

I'm thinking about joining the millitary, because I support the war, I think that its wrong to support this war and not be part of it. Do you get what I'm saying... I feel rather filthy not being over seas with our soldiers yet supporting the war , I feel like a hypocrit. As for the death penalty, I guess I support it, but I'm not sure I would if I looked a dying man in the eyes. Could you look a dying man in the eyes, as he's taking that lethal dose?

[Soldier]

I'm not desensitized to death; I really have not played a lot of violent video games. In any case, I have a hard time pointing to videogames as the source of all evil.

However, I look at death from three perspectives.
1. It's somebody I like/care about/don't want to die - I'm just cold to begin with. Not a lot really gets to me. Sure, I'm sad, but you're not going to see it.
2. It's somebody I don't know anything about - Like the McDonald's guy from the irony thread. In that case, I really don't care whatsoever. I'll chalk it up to another statistic.
3. Somebody I'm glad to see go - pretty self-explanatory. This would also include those that are by my own hand - whether bare-handed, or pulling the trigger from a fighter. In that case, there is a damned good reason for them to die, and I have no problem looking them in the eye, if necessary.

[Grey]

Well, as short as my post may be... Someone has to do what is necessary. US may not have done it the right way but at least they made an effort and all finger is pointed at them simply because they did what others feared to do?

My view is comes partly from reading other users comments on newspaper articles and quite a few of the posts on this thread.

Someone has to get the job done, unfortunately US took all the blame. Perhaps it can be argue-able that if US led the war on iraq at a later date, it may have being more justified and appropriated as mentioned before, theres a time and place for everything.

ps : I wonder more about why the citizens of Iraq is resisting the US rather than aiding them against Saddam and what is left of his regime. Isn't a prolonged conflict working against the very goal they hoped for? Freedom and a good government? I would think sometimes, it would be religious extremism which blows up the problem more than anything else.

[civiltech]

Originally Posted by falcon

hi from middle east,

Just wana to say No one wants this WAR but, I'm not with who's saying that "I do NOT want war.... it's happening".

Bosh and American Jew were planing for years for this war and you are saying it's happening. The US lost much more troops then what the media says. The troops ur sending them ur support don't need them ,they need clean war.
they need clean administrations.

You may aske ur self why about 3000 jews employee were not in the World Trade Center when the plain crashed into it !!!

"Theirs was a giant race, before the flood."

YOU ARE A RACIST.

[fencerjim]

I've been reading over a few of these posts in this thread, and I felt the need to reply. I served in OIF (Operation Iraqi Freedom) and have only been back a few months. There are so many things I feel people should know about what it was like over there, and some of the things I experienced first hand. But unfortunately I am limited to what I can share because of operational security. I know that sounds weak but it's the truth. But I can share with you the mass graves of families that I saw. The bandits roaming the streets, the women arrested for kissing their husbands in public. IED's (improvised explosive devise) that were planted just about everywhere. I was in Baghdad. Being shot at, and then having the shooters run and hide behind children and civilians because they know that the average American will not shoot into a crowd of innocent people. Being out on a patrol and the call for prayer going out over the loud speakers at the local Mosk..saying to praise god, and by the way if you see any americans kill them..it is the will of the great prophet. I've seen the gawdy splendor of Saddams palace, and the mud huts of the farmers in the desert, still warming their houses by having all their animals come inside, and the family sleeping in a loft..where the bodyheat of the animals rises and keeps them warm. I have spoken with the simplest farmer, and to the intellectuals at the university, and 90% of them had this to say.."Thank You! We thank you for our freedom...but please don't leave. Stay until we are safe from the fanatics and the thugs. Our biggest fear is that you'll leave before we are stable".

[Soldier]

Thank you, finally. A voice of authority through experience.

I'd salute you were this not the internet. Your type are the reason I'm joining the Air Force.