Help! French Grip Foil Pops Out Of Hand On Strong Beat

[corinna2u]

Need Help! We are new to fencing. There are three of us: a Senior, a Junior, and a Cadet. All are left hand foil fencers. Our Junior fencer looses her French grip foil when she gets a strong beat from her opponent.

She was in her first tournament last weekend and didn't loose her grip. But this week she has been. What has happened? She is in a tournament tomorrow and would desperately like some advice.

Someone said it was the hazard of the French grip, but our Cadet, he doesn't have this problem.

Please help.

[Style]

He could try holding it tighter.

OR

When someone goes to beat his blade, tell him to circle parry, thus hitting the side of the blade that's already going in the same direction.

[mifencer]

uhhh, why don't you switch to a pistol grip? if you're really serious about fencing competitively you're going to switch eventually, why not now?

[damianip]

Not to start a flame war, I would not recommend going to a pistol until the beginner has had some time to:

1) Develop some hand strength
2) Develop some dexterity
3) Be motivated to derobe and deceive blade contacts rather than sit there or resist them.
4) Avoid the death clutch which sometimes leads to fencing with the shoulder and elbow.

There is plenty of time to get to a pistol, but going to it early will not guarantee progress.

Paolo

[pkt]

Originally posted by damianip
Not to start a flame war, I would not recommend going to a pistol until the beginner has had some time to:

1) Develop some hand strength
2) Develop some dexterity
3) Be motivated to derobe and deceive blade contacts rather than sit there or resist them.
4) Avoid the death clutch which sometimes leads to fencing with the shoulder and elbow.

There is plenty of time to get to a pistol, but going to it early will not guarantee progress.

Paolo

I agree with Paolo: learn to walk ...
The diff is that she's a she and he's a he.

Strengthen HER finger- and hand-strength first.

You know what 's the best way to improve one's finger dexterity? coordination?

Learn to eat only with chopsticks properly.
The PROPER chopstick grip is very similar to a proper fencing grip...

What is a proper chopstick grip?
It is the one that uses the thumb and TWO fingers (index and middle) to manipulate the stick that move. The other stick doesn't move.



PK

[counter riposte]

I disagree. You want to have strong grip on the weapon when you are attacking, light grip the rest of the time. Better to have light grip in order to have better point control as well as not forcing wrist motion on the feight. (I could and have been wrong though, so feel free to disprove me.)

[edew]

Learning on the french only to move to a pistol grip is like asking beginning drivers to start with a stick shift manual before eventually settling on an automatic.

There's so much other stuff to learn and know that having a death grip on a french grip is somewhere way down on the list of priorities. If it's only characteristic at this stage is hindrance, why not do away with it and go with a pistol grip?

[pkt]

The correct answer as to how tight one's grip should be was given by Scaramouche's maitre d'armes,
"A foil is like a little bird: Hold it too tightly, you'll squash it to death. Hold it too lightly, it'll fly away."

'nuff said?

PK

[edew]

Scaramouche's maitre d'armes probably never had to deal with opponents with pistolgrips doing flick attacks and such.

[pkt]

Neither did he have to
- use chopsticks.
- use whippy blades
- wear 1600 N stuff,
...ad nauseum.

Eric, do u accept credit cards for the tapes?


PK

[edew]

Cash or check (in US$).

[135711]

the french grip is used still in salles for beginner classes, it represents a big investment for instructors. it's probably insignificant if used for the child 5-10 years old beginner class. It's like taking ballet when you're really small, you have 30 or so kids running around in tutus, and later on, 29 drop the class, and one continues. Developmentally, I'm looking at muscle coordination, the fine motor groups don't kick in until the child has reached about 10-11 years old - so the straight stick may be easier for a small child.

Anyone with child development? I've only taken a little on this.

So, to the lady who asked the initial question, how old is your child?

[MikeHarm]

Work exercises to strengthen your hand, but don't have a death grip. Develop technique's against people beating your weapon, like using the energy for circle or receding parries, or positioning your weapon with a center guard putting it in line with the center of the cone of the blade movement.

[pkt]

Again, I repeat the line from Scaranouche the maitre's answer to the question of how tightly one should hold a weapon.

"Treat the grip as if it was a little bird: too tightly you'll squeeze it to death; too lightly, it'll fly away."

PK

[rvergara]

Originally posted by pkt

"Treat the grip as if it was a little bird: too tightly you'll squeeze it to death; too lightly, it'll fly away."

PK

very true pk. this was also said by the Fencing Master in the movie

[Tomas N]

I use a pistol grip and it sometimes gets knocked out of my hand too. Happens when 1) my opponent and I both lunge or move forward, I hit, and I have a choice of letting go or skewering him. In that case, I let go. Usually there's a big bend in the blade when I do that, and the blade tends to fly spectacularly across the room. 2) When someone does a strong beat that is unexpected. The second one might only happen every 10 or 20 hours of fencing, but it happens. I've never gotten down on myself about getting my foil knocked out of my hand. I can't remember the last time that someone actually hit me after disarming me. I tell beginners that they shouldn't be worried about it happening. It's a good sign that the death-grip has not appeared.

Tomas

[sallearmourer]

This is from my wife who is a left-handed foil frencer. She as used a french grip now for 35 years. She suggest build up the hand strength and to avoid the hard beats when you can. I have seen her over the years disarmed people using pistol grip against her.

It manily in building up the hand strength.

Tim

[corinna2u]

I want to thank you for all the advice...

the chopstick idea and the birdie visualization worked wonders...

the death grip was her real problem, but it was quickly fixed with the advice given...

[pkt]

pkt
"...the line from Scaranouche the maitre's answer to the question of how tightly one should hold a weapon."

Originally posted by rvergara
very true pk. this was also said by the Fencing Master in the movie

rvergara,

maitre [d'arme] = fencing master



PK

[pkt]

Originally posted by Tomas N
I use a pistol grip and it sometimes gets knocked out of my hand too. Happens when 1) my opponent and I both lunge or move forward, I hit, and I have a choice of letting go or skewering him. In that case, I let go. Usually there's a big bend in the blade when I do that, and the blade tends to fly spectacularly across the room.
Tomas

tomas,

I do that when I fence foil too. i.e. let the foil go when the point lands. No point in getting the blade all bent out of shape, etc. esp. considering the cost of maraging blades these days. Also extends the life of the blade, methinks.

You're releasing the blade too late. You just have to learn the feel of the blade. Try caressing someone you like with the blade on his/her anatomy you don't usu. do in public... - Don't blame me if you get slapped...

But you get the idea.

PK