Curling Nationals....ON NBC!!!!

[Purple Fencer]

Would you believe I actually ran across the U.S. Curling National Championships on NBC this last Saturday?

Curling is no less esoteric or confusing to outsiders than fencing is...so I just dropped an email to the U.S. Curling Association asking them just how they scored this...and by the way...it was a national broadcast!

[pkt]

Curling is NOT for sissies. 1st off, consider the weight of the stones. Then it was invented by the Scots. - Imagine curling in the winter wearing kilts...and we all know the preoper way to wear a kilt...

Curling is fairly simple to understand. A LOT more simpler than fencing. For one thing, it's a lot slower than fencing is.

I for one would be most happy if fencing has the kind of TV coverage that curling enjoys.

In Canada, curling has TV coverage for days on end... are you drooling yet?
http://www.tsn.ca/curling/

http://www.curling.ca/
"Over a million Canadians curl at least once every year at one of the country’s 1,200 clubs. About three-quarters of a million did it on at least a monthly basis this past year, and most curl on a fairly non-competitive basis. In terms of demographics, according to the Print Measurement Bureau’s most recent figures, curlers tend to be slightly above-average in areas traditionally associated with success; more white-collar workers than in the country in general, with a higher education and higher earnings than the national average."

Yeah, they have to be able to afford to pay for ice time.
Imagine fencing having that kind of numbers. Remember, Canada has a population of only 36 million!

They have serious sponsors:
For 2003 it is called the "Ford Curling Wrold Champioships' to e held in Winnipeg, Manitoba.

And there's PRIZE MONEY for the winners.

Some of the women curlers are quite pretty.

During the WC the curlers wear wireless mics so the audience can evesdrop in on their strategy discussion.

Want to know more? Click onto the Canadian Curling Assoc. site.
http://www.curling.ca/

Yeah, Canadians are pretty good curlers... like ice hockey...

PK

[shamshir]

Yeah, I sadly agree.

Curling is more spectator friendly. Doesn't take too much to learn the rules, and once you do, there's no problem with interpretation of the rules, as there is in fencing.

Of course, epee should be spectator friendly enough. Only problem is that epee is the least exciting to watch for the non-fencer. I'd say it goes like this:

Watching excitement/interest:

Sabre
Foil
Epee

Frustration with rules/referees calls:

Sabre
Foil
Epee

Of course that's my opinion. High-level sabre (and foil) are quite visceral, fast-moving, exciting... but everyone I've known who watches it falls asleep quickly because they have no idea how the lights translate into points. And to be honest, even explaining the rules to them doesn't work -- it took me 3 years to really get a "feel" for right of way myself, even though I knew it well enough on paper.

[achilleus]

While Curling may be hugely popular in Canada, it is esoteric here in the US. Curling's biggest claim to fame in the US is when Charles Barkley, on his NBA talk show referred to it as 'dusting', and that his grandma could qualify for the Olympics, since she's a great duster.

So, it's pretty surprising that NBC would devote time to this event. Then again, in the past couple of months, I've seen some rather small events shown on ESPN2 including spelling bees, fitness USA, cheer events, dog show, retriever contests, hunting, billiards, racquetball, matial arts, and world's stongest man.

While some of these events are highly entertaining, if they are able to be televisable, then fencing should be able to get it's act together and get air time.

[achilleus]

Originally posted by shamshir
Yeah, I sadly agree.

Curling is more spectator friendly. Doesn't take too much to learn the rules, and once you do, there's no problem with interpretation of the rules, as there is in fencing.

Of course, epee should be spectator friendly enough. Only problem is that epee is the least exciting to watch for the non-fencer. I'd say it goes like this:

Watching excitement/interest:

Sabre
Foil
Epee

Frustration with rules/referees calls:

Sabre
Foil
Epee

Of course that's my opinion. High-level sabre (and foil) are quite visceral, fast-moving, exciting... but everyone I've known who watches it falls asleep quickly because they have no idea how the lights translate into points. And to be honest, even explaining the rules to them doesn't work -- it took me 3 years to really get a "feel" for right of way myself, even though I knew it well enough on paper.

Sorry, having seen some curling, it's less exciting than golf. If by spectator friendly you only mean the rules are easily understandable, then it's on par with epee.

And in order of enjoyment value, I'd flip your list around

Epee (top level guys, the mid level guys can be painful to watch)
Foil
Saber

[Inquartata]

Whereas I would rank the weapons

Sabre
Epee
Foil

excitement-wise. Good epee can indeed be fun to watch---I lose no opportunity to mention the "money" epee match at the Duel in the Desert a few years ago, they were so close their points were consistently inside each others' guards...and both were so quick the other could not capitalize on the proximity. To say nothing of the bizarre, seemingly pointless high jumps the one fellow would make from time to time. Strange, but fascinating to watch...

Foil, OTOH, is just tedious more often than not, what with all that deliberation, the extended periods of actionless bouncing and blade-waving, and the endless white lights. Except at top levels, where it starts to resemble sabre in terms of footwork and speed ( and all those flicks just look like cuts anyway ).

[shamshir]

I actually meant high-level stuff. I'm basing this on tapes of WC's, Olympics, etc.

Anytime Golubitskiy, Young-Ho Kim, or Elvis Gregory fence, I crap my pants. It's so awesome, esp. when they fence against each other.

I've seen some exciting epee, but more often than not it puts me to sleep.

And I don't know how anyone can say that top-8 sabre from FIE calibre competitions isn't exciting.

[achilleus]

Originally posted by shamshir

And I don't know how anyone can say that top-8 sabre from FIE calibre competitions isn't exciting.

It's pretty easy. The only time I watched and was entertained was watching the '97 worlds. Tarantino was awesome. The way he would argue with the ref, and also explain to his opponent how he got ROW.

Made me laugh.

Although, it's more entertaining than curling.

[edew]

Originally posted by shamshir
I actually meant high-level stuff. I'm basing this on tapes of WC's, Olympics, etc.

Anytime Golubitskiy, Young-Ho Kim, or Elvis Gregory fence, I crap my pants. It's so awesome, esp. when they fence against each other.

I've seen some exciting epee, but more often than not it puts me to sleep.

And I don't know how anyone can say that top-8 sabre from FIE calibre competitions isn't exciting.

While I'm constantly amazed at the top-level foilists' abilities, I seem to maintain enough composure to not lose control of my sphincter.

Top-level epee is good to watch if you know the sport (of fencing, that is, not just epee in particular). Then, you realize that both fencers are sizing each other out, playing mind-games and doing all sorts of very subtle things. That's exciting, but only if you're a cognescenti.

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by shamshir
Anytime Golubitskiy, Young-Ho Kim, or Elvis Gregory fence, I crap my pants.

Heh, remind me never to watch them while sitting beside you!

[oiuyt]

Originally posted by achilleus
So, it's pretty surprising that NBC would devote time to this event. Then again, in the past couple of months, I've seen some rather small events shown on ESPN2 including spelling bees, fitness USA, cheer events, dog show, retriever contests, hunting, billiards, racquetball, matial arts, and world's stongest man.

You're kidding, right? Small events like cheer? We're talking about 3 million cheerleaders in the US. [source: USA Today] A bit bigger than fencing. How many dog owners are there in the US? About 50 million. World's Strongest Man has massive funding from MetRx to stay on the air. These are NOT comparable to fencing.

-B :)

[achilleus]

Originally posted by oiuyt
You're kidding, right? Small events like cheer? We're talking about 3 million cheerleaders in the US. [source: USA Today] A bit bigger than fencing. How many dog owners are there in the US? About 50 million. World's Strongest Man has massive funding from MetRx to stay on the air. These are NOT comparable to fencing.
-B

Bad choice of words on my part. It was late. While I've known and met hundreds of cheerleaders, and even more dancers who compete on dance teams, these events are not hugely popular broadcasts.

As a dog owner myself, I ( as do most dog owners) have no interest in watching (on a repeated basis) dog shows (although Best in Show was a great movie). And World's Strongest Man has been around 50 years, and if you watch the older programs, you can see the lack funding in production quality, and event equipment.

These events all one thing in common though (which you mention partly), big time sponsors. The money coming has allowed all these events to flourish. That's the difference between those events and fencing.

[pkt]

achilleus et al,

Yet once again, your American-centricity is showing.

I always find it amusing that the winners of the 'Super Bowl' calls themselves the 'World Champions'.

(I almost typed in NBA too , but then I checked myself because of the drating of 'foreign' nationals into the league. The winners of the Stanley Cup (ice hockey) do not proclaim themsleves the 'world Champions'.)

There is Canadian Football which to us Canadians is more exciting to watch. cf. epee (American football) and sabre (Canadian football).

--)------------

With the splintering of the TV audience, and the cost of buying some of the programmes, ESPN has to cover some of these esoteric 'sport' events.

Question: Which is the sport series has the highest WORLDWIDE audience on an week-in, week-out basis? (Not counting the Olympics and the Football - soccer to N. Americans - World Cup.)

PK

[achilleus]

Originally posted by pkt
achilleus et al,

Yet once again, your American-centricity is showing.

Funny, I thought the title of this thread said it all.

NBC (US station) showing the US Nationals (again the US), witnessed by a guy living in Los Angeles, CA, USA.

Curling may be very popular in Canada (and other cold spots in the world), but this kind of programming in the US is odd considering the sport has very little interest in the US. That's why Purple Fencer brought up the topic in the first place.


So if want to talk about American-centricity, please start another thread since this one is focued on American broadcasts of sports.

[Purple Fencer]

Here's my letter to U.S. Curling and their reply (nice & fast, too!)



Please advise just HOW you convinced NBC to air curling on a
national basis!! I am a fencer by choice and I don't EVER
rememebr seeing fencing on a major US network!  Fencing is about as esoteric and confusin to the unititiated as fencing is...although I learned a few things when curling was on the Olympic coverage recently...I happened across your Nationals coverage while channel surfing Saturday.  I'm also heavily into competitive drum & bugle corps, and the only place THEY get coverage is once a year on PBS

Thank you very much, and good job getting coverage for your sport!

Sam Signorelli



Dear Sam,

Probably a combination of luck, persistence, alignment of the stars,
cajoling, persistence, MONEY, and so on and so forth.

The opportunity presented itself when NBC saw something they liked come
out of the Salt Lake City Olympics, where more than 50 hours of curling
was broadcast on MSNBC, CNBC and NBC (women's final on the main
network). Our IF, the World Curling Federation, was wise enough to see
that this was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and while proceeding
cautiously, came with the financial backing necessary to pull this off.

I'm not an expert on fencing, but I do know that your sport has done
some amazing things in getting the U.S. athletes onto the medal stands
lately. I wouldn't be surprised to see more of the stories about your
athletes start to show up on NBC or its subsidiaries as the Athens
Games approach.

I'm not comparing curling to any other sport here, but it is TV
friendly in that the players can be miked so you can hear strategy
discussions, etc.; the game is much like baseball in that you can walk
away from the TV (full-game coverage, we're talking here) and come back
for the dramatics; and viewers can be great couch-potato skips, second-
guessing strategy to death at home.

The sport, probably like fencing, is also something that just about
anyone can play (a lot like golf), and spend the rest of their lives
trying to perfect.\

We had decent numbers come back from our first show, and are hoping for
even better for the Sunday, April 20 broadcast from the World Curling
Championships (also at 2-3 p.m. EST). Please tune in if you have the
chance.

It has been a long, hard haul to get where we are at, and there are no
guarantees yet of any future on network TV. We know the same can be
said of most other "minority" sports, including fencing. Best of luck
in your pursuits.


Thanks for your feedback and support.

Cordially,
Rick Patzke
Communications Director
USA Curling

[DHCJr]

That was a good reply. Thank you Sam for writing. I do question your e-mail, "Fencing is about as esoteric and confusin to the unititiated as fencing is"

I just had to mention it. You left a straight line out there so huge, I couldn't do anything else.

[Purple Fencer]

OOppss! It was late. Sorry.

I'll drop you a line when that Favero reel arrives at SwordPlay...I know you wanted to take a look at it.

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by pkt


I always find it amusing that the winners of the 'Super Bowl' calls themselves the 'World Champions'.

Well, they ARE more or less the World Champions of that particular sport. There are precious few teams playing American-style football outside the US.

Baseball, OTOH, has long since gone worldwide, and yet we have the so-called World Series, the qualifying path to which doesn't even permit teams from, say, baseball-obsessed Japan to enter...

But then, the US has no corner on this behavior. *cough* Miss Universe*cough*

[earlie]

Atnoe. More like toe curling. Hair curling exciting it is a little more than that sport-curling. Whiskers curlie.

[jusplainfencing]

oh man i got sooo hooked on watching curling during the salt lake olympic games.....its really interesting.....my mom and dad wanted to find a team to join for a while....oh boy.....