Fencing Maestro?

[Mulligan]

Is there actually any such designation in US fencing? I was able to find the designation "Fencing Master" in United States Fencing Coaches Association.

There is this guy that is running a small club near me that claims to be a "Maestro." (And and that this is an earned designation.)
However, he is unrated as a competitive fencer, and I am sure that I know several beginner/intermediate fencers that could beat him. (and not because of his age...he is 40ish) I am having a hard time buying his claim.

Is there some sort of list of rated "maestros?"

[achilleus]

The USFCA used to have a list of members, and their ranking within that association, however. such a list may not be complete. Not all are members of the USFCA, or they may earn their masters via a school that is not recognized by the USFCA (San Jose).

Also, keep in mind that knowledge on how to coach fencing is not neccessarily the same as being a compettive fencer.

In regards to Fencing Masters in MI, this topic has been argued about before. A search should yeild some results.

[135711]

I feel bad for you. Why not call usfa and ask if they've ever heard of him. Most Professional Organizations keep credential files and have verification procedures. On a personal note, I've never heard anyone call themself a maestro, as you've noticed it tends to be a term assigned to a person by students, former students, peers and community, after a period of demonstrative expertise in a field. A personal favorite of mine has interesting credentials, a mind like a maestro, still fences very youthfully but what can I say? Maestro's are like famous artists or pianists, they rant alot, they're control freaks and they're very strong. He could be It? The One!

[R. Exnicios]

The USFCA does have a pretty good database of fencing Masters. In my experience, the real masters don't have to tell you their credentials; you can see it in their skills. I've been privileged to work with and watch some true fencing masters and you can tell immediately that they really know their stuff.

On that same note there are a few "accredited" masters out there that are less then outstanding. Bottom line is a good coach is a good coach. If you think the guy is full of it move on.

On the other hand, if you just want to check him out ask him/her where he/she trained etc.

Good luck!

[MikeHarm]

We're both in Michigan, so I have to ask, which guy/club is it you're referring to? I probably can give some insight on it or find out for ya.



Mike

Originally posted by Mulligan
Is there actually any such designation in US fencing? I was able to find the designation "Fencing Master" in United States Fencing Coaches Association.

There is this guy that is running a small club near me that claims to be a "Maestro." (And and that this is an earned designation.)
However, he is unrated as a competitive fencer, and I am sure that I know several beginner/intermediate fencers that could beat him. (and not because of his age...he is 40ish) I am having a hard time buying his claim.

Is there some sort of list of rated "maestros?"

[AaronK]

Yes, the USFCA does have a list of members (membership directory) and thier rankings (monitour, prevost, master)- the USFA would not have a list- they are concearned with the fencers and competitions not directly with the coaches (with the exception of the USFA coaches college).
This is by all means not a complete list of masters in the US. (As in the case of the San Jose program, also fencing masters from other countries who never join the USFCA.)
Maestro is the Italian term for master. (French Maître, German Meister).
Just because a fencing master has no competitive "rating" doesn't mean that they can't coach fencing. I name one or two fencing masters who have had a miserable competitive career, but are exemplary coaches.
On the other hand one's claim to be a master or "maestro" doens't neccessarily make it so. I would give someone a chance but you also have to trust your gut instincts.
aaron

[Capt. Slo-mo]

It's the ones who INSIST on being called "Maestro" that you need to worry about.

Especially when their thick European accent slips in unguarded moments and they sound more like Tony on "The Sopranos."

[achilleus]

Originally posted by Capt. Slo-mo
It's the ones who INSIST on being called "Maestro" that you need to worry about.

Especially when their thick European accent slips in unguarded moments and they sound more like Tony on "The Sopranos."

Come to think of it, I've never heard any of the maestro's I know refer to themselves that way. They refer to other coaches that way, but never to themselves that way.

[Mulligan]

Hey...this guy is also into "classical" fencing. Is there some sort of accreditation organization for the fluffy shirt crowd?

[135711]

Originally posted by Capt. Slo-mo
It's the ones who INSIST on being called "Maestro" that you need to worry about.

Especially when their thick European accent slips in unguarded moments and they sound more like Tony on "The Sopranos."

THick European accents, wow, talk about it! i never heard anyone european yell about being a maestro, who did you learn with? I like europeans, and try to look at the individual, not their place of origin, except of course if you're from Texas or China I'll tell you a little secret, the Chinese still want China to be a secret. The entire nation, of millions and million of hectacres and billions of people are still a major world secret. Why? They're waiting for us to screw everything up so they can move back to North America. Taadaa!

[Sildar]

Originally posted by Mulligan
Is there actually any such designation in US fencing? I was able to find the designation "Fencing Master" in United States Fencing Coaches Association.

There is this guy that is running a small club near me that claims to be a "Maestro." (And and that this is an earned designation.)
However, he is unrated as a competitive fencer, and I am sure that I know several beginner/intermediate fencers that could beat him. (and not because of his age...he is 40ish) I am having a hard time buying his claim.

Is there some sort of list of rated "maestros?"

Every organization keeps its own lists. It's not such an easy question to answer because there are a number of accrediting organizations; USFCA, the Military Masters program in San Jose, a couple different French Academies, a couple of Italian programs, and I hear there are even German and Polish Master's organizations which accredit applicants from the US. It gets messier when you consider that some organizations don't recognize other organizations, or are only recognized in one country, and that every program has different requirements and standards. Just as with University degrees, some diplomas are worth more than others; there are a few really fantastic Maestros, and there are also a few of the mail order PhD variety.

And as others have said, being a good fencer doesn't inherently make someone a good teacher, and not every good teacher is a good fencer. The best teachers are both, but they are relatively rare.

[Sildar]

Originally posted by Mulligan
Hey...this guy is also into "classical" fencing. Is there some sort of accreditation organization for the fluffy shirt crowd?

If he's calling himself a Classical Maestro, he's probably a student of Crown, Evangelista, Gaugler, or one of their students. Then again, most people have different definitions of what Classical fencing is. Some people use Classical to mean "old-fashioned sport fencing," and they prefer to train using the styles popular 40 or 50 years ago. Some people refer to anything pre-20th century as Classical fencing, and include rapier, smallsword, and other historical styles under the term Classical.

Strictly speaking, Classical fencing is the kind of fencing used as training for dueling in the 19th century. However, there are very very few people who actually know much about 19th century dueling, let alone teach it. There are far more people who call what they do Classical fencing, when really what they are teaching is clean and precise sport fencing in a slightly archaic style.

The easiest way to find out, of course, would be to simply call the fellow and ask him where he got his Master's diploma from. That would tell you more than all of this speculation.

[AaronK]

Well, one more addendum when people mention that certain organizations don't recognize other's certification process.
There is an organization, the AAI (Academie d'Armes Internationale) that recognizes fencing master certification in many countries and through them set a standard of recognition for the titles monitour, prevost, and master. Someone who was certified as a USFCA fencing master would have the right to recognition by similar organizations in countries such as Germany, Canada, France, GB... as they would here. Also the USFCA has had a policy (at least written) that they will recognize other countries certifications.
As far as other certifications the standard created by the IOC/USOC for coach credentialling took place in the form of the coaches college and reflects a IOC/USOC model for coaching abilities. These are expressed by levels 1-5, 1 being the most basic and 5 being the most advanced level. They are in theory the equivelent to a "level x coach" certified by the NGB in thier own country.
As far as classical fencing goes...there are people offering fencing master certification, though since they are an entity onto themselves it's probably not going to be recognized outside of thier own circles.

[135711]

hi folks, just playing around in the folder i have trouble logging out, but here's a question,

the classical mode of fencing has a nice round appearance, and nice long lunges with the front foot that 'kicks' out from underneath, giving the fencer stability, and sturdier landing on the foot than the so-called modern fencer who lifts the foot vertially and then uses the torso rather than the leg to lunge, then with the back arm not providing any leverage whatsoever, the fencer now must rely on a completely different set of muscles, causing them to decide to stand higher and move in closer to the opponent. would this be a fair description.

[MikeHarm]

Fluffy shirt.. I hope this isn't the non-rated SCA guy who showed up in the all black outfits for his tournies.. heh, that would be kinda funny if it is. I dunno if he thought he was a ninja or what. I'm looking forward to hearing more on who this mystery Maestro is.

[Mulligan]

He says that he is a usfca rated fencing master. So we called the regional director. He is looking to see if he is (or has ever been) accredited.

Mike, I sent you an email to the email address on your web page.

You said that you are going to be at "excalibur," didn't you? I will look you up.

[MikeHarm]

You'll need to resend your email, or send me a pm here if its to reach me. I had so much spam I had my inbox protector set to only allow emails from people in my address book already so you were filtered out. Hmm.. maybe that might be one of the reasons I didn't get any responses to my asking for a partner for the Valentines tourney last month now that I think of it.

I'll be at Excalibur and the St. Patty's Open this saturday at Ren fencing foil at both.

Mike