Transparent Fencing Mask

[Tim Schofield]

In article <1rJ9a.1186$945.4121@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, Julie C.
<no-spanner@127.0.0.0> writes
>> Ok, it my own opinion, but i don't like and i don't want to use such
>> masks and would never use it.
>
>Ok. But my question is not if you personnally like or dislike transparent
>masks. Does anyone actually use those masks?

There are a few of the Leon Paul ones in use in the UK. You generally
see one or two in each open. (I don't use one myself though). They
look robust.

I guess the main plus point is that the unusual appearance scares your
opponent (really!). The main negative point usually quoted is the cost
of replacing the top layer when it gets scratched; I gather they're
quite heavy too.

--
Tim S.

[Delia M. Turner]

I've been told by people who have them that they make the approach of
a head-cut seem dreadfully real--the mesh has the advantage of
distancing the immediacy of someone trying to whack you in the face.

--Delia

wreckferret <jerpxsreerg@hxez.arg> wrote in message news:<g1pc7v8d5qlq0utb4t8v63jgna22ofucaj@4ax.com>. ..
> On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:09:26 +0000, Tim Schofield <tim@foxtree.co.uk>
> held forth:
>
> >I guess the main plus point is that the unusual appearance scares your
> >opponent (really!).
>
> I disagree. The ability to see the wearer's eyes is a positive
> advantage, as one can see where that opponent is about to aim.
>
> > The main negative point usually quoted is the cost
> >of replacing the top layer when it gets scratched; I gather they're
> >quite heavy too.
>
> The thin perspex layer is actually quite cheap.
>
> They weigh a lot though, it's true.
>
> Also, ask yourself the question why few fencers want them, why several
> manufacturers will only make them to order (i.e. Leon Paul) and why,
> incidentally, the only people wanting them were FIE bigwigs who wanted
> their sport to appeal more to spectators? I've yet to meet a fencer
> (sans those gushing within advertising blurb) to truthfully extol
> those transparent masks' virtues...

[Cristiano Alves]

>>> Ok, it my own opinion, but i don't like and i don't want to use such
>>> masks and would never use it.
>>
>>Ok. But my question is not if you personnally like or dislike transparent
>>masks. Does anyone actually use those masks?
>
>There are a few of the Leon Paul ones in use in the UK. You generally
>see one or two in each open. (I don't use one myself though). They
>look robust.
>
>I guess the main plus point is that the unusual appearance scares your
>opponent (really!). The main negative point usually quoted is the cost
>of replacing the top layer when it gets scratched; I gather they're
>quite heavy too.

I've read that this kind of mask produces a lot of heat and that is
extremely uncomfortable to use. In the article where these mask was
mentioned said that one of the main purposes was to see the
adversaries face, you could then study his movements and which target
was he searching for.
I prefer the normal kind of masks too, but, I have to admit that these
arguments are important in the way that gives a sense of reality to
the sport.

En garde!

[Holly E. Ordway]

Cristiano Alves <CRISTIAANO@terra.es> wrote in
news:8ije7vs2jokitpjsgrt73nvhjlsmllsrn7@4ax.com:

> In the article where these mask was
> mentioned said that one of the main purposes was to see the
> adversaries face, you could then study his movements and which target
> was he searching for.

Of course, this is an excellent rationale for any given fencer *not* to
wear a transparent mask: the advantage goes to the opponent, not to the
fencer wearing the mask!

I won't be using one, that's for sure... If nothing else, the
temperature and the need to replace the window periodically are complete
and utter killers of the idea for me.

Anyway, it's not like you can't see the opponent's face through a mask.
My husband does it all the time - he'll see where someone is looking and
react accordingly. I'm no good at doing that, but just because I tend
not to pay enough attention to the face, not because it's impossible to
see.

--Holly

[Patrick C.]

Cristiano Alves <CRISTIAANO@terra.es> wrote in
news:8ije7vs2jokitpjsgrt73nvhjlsmllsrn7@4ax.com:

>
> I've read that this kind of mask produces a lot of heat and that is
> extremely uncomfortable to use. In the article where these mask was
> mentioned said that one of the main purposes was to see the
> adversaries face, you could then study his movements and which target
> was he searching for.

Well then how about a one-way mirror coating on the plastic? Plus it would
be distracting to your opponent, to look at your head and see a warped
image of themselves :-)

[Joseph Haig]

dmturner@dmturner.org (Delia M. Turner) wrote in message news:<a02e0196.0303180914.68aa7eb0@posting.google. com>...
> I've been told by people who have them that they make the approach of
> a head-cut seem dreadfully real--the mesh has the advantage of
> distancing the immediacy of someone trying to whack you in the face.
>

And here's another problem. What about sabre? I don't believe that
they have developed a conducting plastic yet so what happens to the
target? I was told a few years ago by someone on a Leon Paul stand
that they FIE proposed removing from the target a section from the
front of the face, but I have not heard anything since.

Bye,

Joe

> --Delia
>
> wreckferret <jerpxsreerg@hxez.arg> wrote in message news:<g1pc7v8d5qlq0utb4t8v63jgna22ofucaj@4ax.com>. ..
> > On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:09:26 +0000, Tim Schofield <tim@foxtree.co.uk>
> > held forth:
> >
> > >I guess the main plus point is that the unusual appearance scares your
> > >opponent (really!).
> >
> > I disagree. The ability to see the wearer's eyes is a positive
> > advantage, as one can see where that opponent is about to aim.
> >
> > > The main negative point usually quoted is the cost
> > >of replacing the top layer when it gets scratched; I gather they're
> > >quite heavy too.
> >
> > The thin perspex layer is actually quite cheap.
> >
> > They weigh a lot though, it's true.
> >
> > Also, ask yourself the question why few fencers want them, why several
> > manufacturers will only make them to order (i.e. Leon Paul) and why,
> > incidentally, the only people wanting them were FIE bigwigs who wanted
> > their sport to appeal more to spectators? I've yet to meet a fencer
> > (sans those gushing within advertising blurb) to truthfully extol
> > those transparent masks' virtues...

[Cristiano Alves]

>>
>> I've read that this kind of mask produces a lot of heat and that is
>> extremely uncomfortable to use. In the article where these mask was
>> mentioned said that one of the main purposes was to see the
>> adversaries face, you could then study his movements and which target
>> was he searching for.
>
>Well then how about a one-way mirror coating on the plastic? Plus it would
>be distracting to your opponent, to look at your head and see a warped
>image of themselves :-)

lol That's a great idea, have you seen a movie called Vidoq? Well,
the main advantage is to bring up the sport, a modern one, with a
virtue that had the fencing a few centuries ago, that you could look
to your opponent eyes, as saying: "i'm here, look at me, see me and
prepare yourself: en garde!"

[Fencerbill]

In article <169dff8c.0303190355.17d199a3@posting.google.com >,
jhaig@maths.man.ac.uk (Joseph Haig) writes:

>And here's another problem. What about sabre? I don't believe that
>they have developed a conducting plastic yet so what happens to the
>target? I was told a few years ago by someone on a Leon Paul stand
>that they FIE proposed removing from the target a section from the
>front of the face, but I have not heard anything since.

Leon Paul does make clear face plate Sabre masks.

Yes, it has taken away valid target. Just another justification for us Sabre
fencers to *****, *****, *****...

I hit him right in the middle of the face and it was clear plastic!!!!!

Bill Hall

[CLHagenMN]

In article <g1pc7v8d5qlq0utb4t8v63jgna22ofucaj@4ax.com>, wreckferret
<jerpxsreerg@hxez.arg> writes:

>
>I disagree. The ability to see the wearer's eyes is a positive
>advantage, as one can see where that opponent is about to aim.

This doesn't make sense!
You CAN'T like it for that reason!
Either, A. You're wearing one, and he's NOT, in which case, you are giving HIM
the alleged advantage, so you can't like THAT;
B. He's wearing one, and you're not, in which case you REALLY don't want the
mask, you just want your opponent to have it; OR
C. You are BOTH wearing them, in which case (under your reasoniong) we can only
assume that you both are looking each other in the eye, and NEITHER of of you
is looking/aiming at anything!

So that's really not a reason to like/want them!

Have a nice day!

;-)

[CLHagenMN]

In article <an2v7v0ohj0jcvsi6s9tp8o9dctt74434h@4ax.com>, wreckferret
<jerpxsreerg@hxez.arg> writes:

>Subject: Re: Transparent Fencing Mask
>From: wreckferret <jerpxsreerg@hxez.arg>
>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:49:23 +0000 (UTC)
>
>On 23 Mar 2003 19:45:21 GMT, clhagenmn@aol.com (CLHagenMN) held forth:
>
>>This doesn't make sense!
>>You CAN'T like it for that reason!
>
>Who said I liked them? Quite the opposite...
>
>>Either, A. You're wearing one, and he's NOT, in which case, you are giving
>HIM
>>the alleged advantage, so you can't like THAT;
>>B. He's wearing one, and you're not, in which case you REALLY don't want the
>>mask, you just want your opponent to have it; OR
>>C. You are BOTH wearing them, in which case (under your reasoniong) we can
>only
>>assume that you both are looking each other in the eye, and NEITHER of of
>you
>>is looking/aiming at anything!
>>
>>So that's really not a reason to like/want them!
>
>I think you and I are singing from the same hymn-sheet. Well, apart
>from the fact that you misunderstood my post completely, despite
>having the same opinion of these awful masks that I do.

Sorry, maybe I quoted you quoting someone else...
SOMEBODY said they liked them...