And you thought some parents on our sport was bad...

[Mauler]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highsc...150533694.html

Two girls argue in an Indiana school basketball practice.
Assistant coach tell the girls to run laps as a punishment.
One of the girls tells her father what happened after practice.
Father goes ballistic on the assistant coach:
- Punches him, leveling him on the floor.
- Gets on top of him, and continues to beat up on him until he goes unconscious and the Head Coach pulls him off.

His friends and relatives come to the court to protect him. A relative is caught on camera saying the following:

"So what he punched the coach in the face? You saying he wasn't supposed to?"



Makes you wonder where this country is headed...

[NeverWas]

We are talking about the state (and basketball tradition) that spawned Bobby Knight.

[KD5MDK]

Makes you wonder where this country is headed...

It is in fact impossible to derive a vector from a data point.[1]


[1] I'm sure K O'N will be happy to correct me if I'm inaccurate here.

[jkormann]

Makes you wonder where this country is headed...

$15k bail for assault and attempted manslaughter. That's an insult to the assistant coach.

[axfv]

$15k bail for assault and attempted manslaughter. That's an insult to the assistant coach.

I think low bails are more an insult to the accused, which basically says "you can't afford to skip town anyway, so we won't even bother setting high bail"

[Mauler]

It's not an insult if he's not intelligent enough to understand it. And last time I checked, someone in our sport in recent controversy finally posted bail and went straight for the nearest border. At least that dude sat his scrawny b*tt in jail for a few months, and had the fear of justice system put in him. What did this guy get? A night in jail and back home to his loving relatives high-fiving him?

[OROD]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highsc...150533694.html

...

"So what he punched the coach in the face? You saying he wasn't supposed to?"

The people in that video are incredible. Total pieces of ****.

This is why we cant have nice things.

[piste off]

It's not an insult if he's not intelligent enough to understand it. And last time I checked, someone in our sport in recent controversy finally posted bail and went straight for the nearest border. At least that dude sat his scrawny b*tt in jail for a few months, and had the fear of justice system put in him. What did this guy get? A night in jail and back home to his loving relatives high-fiving him?

I don't agree with your post. Perhaps if you substitute the word dumba$$ for loving in the last sentence we could be on the same page.

[JAG]

$15k bail for assault and attempted manslaughter. That's an insult to the assistant coach.

Not to get all serious and harsh your outrage, but bail serves to prevent flight and assure the defendant's return to court. In this country, we prefer to convict before we sentence. Usually.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

And so people with lots of money and connections get large bail amounts to prevent flight risk. Sure. But more serious crimes usually get larger dollar figures too, and when the defendant is a danger.....

"Only a Judge has the power to set bail, usually in a specific amount depending upon the seriousness of the crime. The amount of bail may not be set higher than what is reasonably required to assure the defendant's reappearance in court. If clear and convincing evidence is presented that the defendant poses a risk to another person or to the community, bail may be set in a higher amount."

http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/victim/crimpro.htm

[jkormann]

Not to get all serious and harsh your outrage, but bail serves to prevent flight and assure the defendant's return to court. In this country, we prefer to convict before we sentence. Usually.

Read Mauler and piste's posts. I have no problem with him being convicted after a trial. I do have a problem with him paying $1500 (10% is the norm, through a bondsman) and sleeping in his bed while the assistant coach gets to deal with a concussion.

[JAG]

Read Mauler and piste's posts. I have no problem with him being convicted after a trial. I do have a problem with him paying $1500 (10% is the norm, through a bondsman) and sleeping in his bed while the assistant coach gets to deal with a concussion.

As long as it's only about punishing him beforehand, since there's plenty of time for conviction and trial later. Got it.

By the way, how bail/bond is made is different by jurisdiction, but that really doesn't seem to be your issue. If he was sleeping in bed at home with $15k up, it would still be the same problem. Maybe if judge just told the court officer to give him a concusion and release him, it would satisfy your sense of justice?

[jkormann]

As long as it's only about punishing him beforehand, since there's plenty of time for conviction and trial later. Got it.

By the way, how bail/bond is made is different by jurisdiction, but that really doesn't seem to be your issue. If he was sleeping in bed at home with $15k up, it would still be the same problem. Maybe if judge just told the court officer to give him a concusion and release him, it would satisfy your sense of justice?

Nope. I'd be unhappy about that too. If there was some sense of contrite or regret on the part of the accused, then I'd be a little better. There didn't seem to be any and I hope that factored into the Judge's bail amount. Just seemed very low.

Which JAG are you with?

[MyrddinsPrecint]

JAG-- I realize you didn't respond to me..... but my primary worry is the safety of the assistant coach.

Also, it's not like the family is saying that he's not guilty, or there were extenuating circumstances. They're saying there's nothing wrong with beating the **** out of this coach.

[JAG]

JAG-- I realize you didn't respond to me..... but my primary worry is the safety of the assistant coach.

Also, it's not like the family is saying that he's not guilty, or there were extenuating circumstances. They're saying there's nothing wrong with beating the **** out of this coach.

Sorry, didn't see your earlier comment. I'm as appalled and disgusted as everyone else here, and can't imagine how anyone could rationalize that this beating is justified under any circumstances. My point is that the system will do its job, and if he's convicted of a crime (as it appears he should be), he will be sentenced. That's where the punishment happens, not at the time of bail.

As for the potential for harm, whether to the individual or society, as a factor in bail, it has to be based on more than some generalized fear. If he has no prior convictions for violent conduct, then one act would normally be viewed as aberrational. There is no hard basis to believe that he poses a threat of violence beyond what already happened. Bear in mind that these concerns apply to everyone, not just this one individual. Bear in mind that defendants are presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, which means that presumed guilt in the case for which he's before the court doesn't provide a rational basis to assume he poses a threat of violence, absent some particularized basis to deviate from the rule.

Let him be tried and convicted, then appropriately punished. He will get what he deserves. Arraignment is not the time to punish.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I think we pretty much agree. I suppose I don't really have enough information to know whether it was an abnormally large or small amount given the nature of the crime, but I confess that it feels too small to me. I (pretty much) get the system, and it's not that he's out on bail, or innocent until proven guilty, it's really just the part where the bail feels small. And "feeling" isn't terribly helpful or convincing in this area, I realize.

[indypacers]

Ah basketball in my home state, intense, combative and confrontation..........seems like a NAC when a favored son/daugther is losing a bout where the coaches/parents are going ballistic. I personally don't have a problem with a coach making a kid run laps in practice(how do you think we found runners for cross-country?) but the father going off on the coach no......there is no excuse.

but then again I had to go off on an official for cussing at 14 y/o's during a USFA event at Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana.

[RITFencing]

I like KD5MDK and JAG's responses the best out of all of this, though of course the action in question is certainly sickening to me.

[Mallethead]

It's not an insult if he's not intelligent enough to understand it. And last time I checked, someone in our sport in recent controversy finally posted bail and went straight for the nearest border. At least that dude sat his scrawny b*tt in jail for a few months, and had the fear of justice system put in him. What did this guy get? A night in jail and back home to his loving relatives high-fiving him?

Your grasp of the criminal prosecution system and Constitutional law is breathtaking.

BTW sometime life just doesn't seem fair. Also, someone is, most likely, going to be in jail and deserves it.