Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 59
Like Tree107Likes

Thread: Bad Ref ruining my sons confidence

  1. #21
    Senior Member MikeHarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Belleville, Mi USA
    Posts
    1,687
    Blog Entries
    147
    Why isn't he doing epee if he can't handle the calls?

  2. #22
    Senior Member Peach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    6,796
    Blog Entries
    1329
    Hey, folks. The FP, like other parents, is learning on the job. No need to jump on people -- especially when they haven't even had a chance to respond to any of the comments.
    “The whole of life is just like watching a film. Only it's as though you always get in ten minutes after the big picture has started, and no-one will tell you the plot, so you have to work it out all yourself from the clues.”
    Terry Pratchett, Moving Pictures

  3. #23
    Senior Member Empty Wallet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Elsewhere
    Posts
    2,594
    Quote Originally Posted by mumno1 View Post
    The ref was young and he was inexperienced . What do I say to him?
    You say nothing to the ref. if you are concerned, have your son's coach discuss it with those in charge of the competition. It is difficult enough to get people to be officials at youth sports without random parents questioning their work.

    Indeed, if the coach was there, discuss with them your son's performance to understand the good and bad of it so that next time he can perform better. One lesson could be how to adjust his fencing to the way a ref calls actions.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    2,182
    This sounds like a thread about Point-in-Whine.
    FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WON'T YOU BUY MY TACTICAL WHEEL!!!????

  5. #25
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    13,173
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeHarm View Post
    Why isn't he doing epee if he can't handle the calls?
    What makes you think this wasn't épée?

  6. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    98
    Plenty of other people have talent, and also years of experience and training. If your child isn't seeking out these opponents and losing to them regularly then they re learning nothing and might as well quit. As my wife put it when I was losing confidence in a similar situation, what's the point in beating a bunch of losers?

    Don't blame the ref. The other fencer was better. Deal with it.

  7. #27
    Senior Member I_luv_saber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Fresno, California
    Posts
    5,107
    Yeesh... sounds like a few folks might be competing with Inq for the curmudgeon title...

    Could it have just been a bad ref making bad calls that cost the bout? Yeah, sure. It happens. Even refs have to start somewhere. Other times (and I'm talking from a helluva lot of experience here) the other fencer is... just better. I've fenced my heart out but just been unable to score. The other fencer was just better, and there wasn't much I could do about it.

    The point is, it doesn't really matter why your son lost that bout. If it was indeed bad reffing, you will encounter a lot of those and you will need to learn to handle it, and figure out what they want and how to play to it. But really even that is beside the point: the point is, one must learn to lose, regardless the reason. That's a big part of competition because it's unavoidable for anybody.

    Also, just throwing this out there, but there could be a few reasons your son wants to give up. The first, which sounds most likely to me, is he's a top of his class fencer breaking into a new class and isn't used to not being on top, which is discouraging. He'll just have to learn to get through it, and you'll just have to do your best to encourage him and tell him that everybody loses a bout now and then, especially when you start swimming with bigger fish. The important thing to remember is to put it in perspective: You're getting better, you're just also fencing with better fencers. It's not that you are a bad fencer.

    Second, the reffing was either "bad" or just called in a way he isn't used to (common when first leaving your region, in my experience) and it was frustrating because he couldn't compensate. Again, a common problem when first bumped into, and this is something his coach should be helping him with (how to fence for the ref).

    Third, and I'm just throwing this out there, maybe he just doesn't want to fence? I have no idea about the situation, but maybe he just doesn't feel it and wants to leave? Just a thought. Honestly, I think a mix of 1 and 2 are most likely.

    (PS, In my experience it is very rarely bad calls that are to blame. Sometimes it's a different interpretation, but rarely "bad". But hey, it happens. As I said, it's beside the point).
    "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it."

  8. #28
    Needs to get Outside Inquartata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Somewhere in your nightmares!
    Posts
    38,751
    Quote Originally Posted by I_luv_saber View Post
    Yeesh... sounds like a few folks might be competing with Inq for the curmudgeon title...
    Personally I thought that they were channeling Telk. I don't think I'm ever that harsh to newcomers...as long as they capitalize, punctuate and spell correctly.
    I_luv_saber and Allex like this.
    Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!

  9. #29
    Senior Member Zelda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Australia - various
    Posts
    2,784
    Weighing in for what its worth. IF the OP is in Oz, AND their son competed in the comp I THINK he may have competed in, to my knowledge every single ref at that comp had done the reffing course offered by the state association and being graded. I was supposed to ref at that comp, but due to a mix up in the rosters going out, and a 1 in 20 year flood event I couldn't make it.
    However, what to say to your son....
    "Its one match. He is 2 years older than you, and you made the semi finals.....that says ALOT about your potential ability." Sometimes you have to fence the ref as well as the competitor. I know when I have competed I could have SWORN I beat the blade, but the ref called it my opponents parry. You adapt.
    I know as a ref, I will do my best to call something consistently. But its hard, especially at the younger levels. The kids are enthusiastic, and while they have some control, the finesse is not necessarily there yet. Sometimes you replay a phrase in your head and you just can't award the hit as it has got mixed up something chronic.
    I guess what I am saying is - it is one comp, in an age group 1 up from what he is used to competing in and its an age group with a big jump in cognitive ability as well as strength/height etc. To make the semis is an amazing thing, and something he should be proud of.
    Peach likes this.
    Theses are evil....VERY evil, someone rescue me pls!

  10. #30
    Senior Member I_luv_saber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Fresno, California
    Posts
    5,107
    Quote Originally Posted by Inquartata View Post
    Personally I thought that they were channeling Telk. I don't think I'm ever that harsh to newcomers...as long as they capitalize, punctuate and spell correctly.
    That's not very curmudgeonly....

    Better watch out for that title!
    Last edited by I_luv_saber; 03-05-2012 at 08:23 AM.
    "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it."

  11. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    82
    OK, besides the specifics of good ref/bad ref; I'd like to make two points on something more global.

    First for all fencers. The ref, the weather, the day of the week and a host of other things are all out of your control. A fencer should not spend time worrying about these things. As much as possible a fencer should be spending energy only on what he/she can control, like preparation, equipment, actions and attitude (and that long list). The more you fixate on things you can't control the easier you are to beat because your helping your opponent beat you.

    The second point is about kids. Several studies have shown that kids that are told they have talent (or are smart, or are gifted) and are congratulated for being gifted, tend to do poorly in less than ideal situations. In fact they develop a fixed sense of ability, i.e., they think that if they are more gifted they should succeed and when they run into someone that is more talented/gifted (or simply perceived to be more talented/gifted) they give up because they don't think there is anything that can be done about it.

    Kids that are told that they can become smarter or more gifted through hard work, and are congratulated for their effort tend to develop a plastic sense of intelligence and ability. In other words when they run into a difficult situation they will be more likely to find a way to work toward success.

    Many coaches, in an effort to encourage a child, will tell them they are gifted. They may do this because the child does show some feel for the sport, or sometimes they are just trying to keep a customer (or both). This really is a disservice to the child as it sets them up for a situation such as the one described by the OP. I prefer to tell students that they show promise and that they can build on that promise through work. I congratulate them on their effort not on the outcome. When they hit a tough opponent or the perceived bad ref, we talk about it. My job is to teach them to see, then to adapt. If they feel their talent is a fixed point, they will not be able to adapt because they will think it impossible to do so.

    By your son a milkshake, let him vent, and when the storm cloud passes talk with him and his coach about how he can change a situation through his actions. If you want to go the extra mile, draw a parallel to his life outside of fencing and he can take this lesson into the rest of his life. Realizing that you can change the things in your control is a powerful lesson. It's a lesson every kid deserves to be taught.
    And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

  12. #32
    Needs to get Outside Inquartata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Somewhere in your nightmares!
    Posts
    38,751
    Quote Originally Posted by I_luv_saber View Post
    That's not very curmudgeonly....

    Better watch out for that title!
    Laymen always think it's about quantity.
    Zelda and I_luv_saber like this.
    Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!

  13. #33
    Just Joined
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1
    Bad calls are a part of fencing (like bad bosses, bad cars, and bad pizzas are part of life). The lesson is in how to handle adversity and disappointment.

  14. #34
    Senior Member piste off's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,188
    "Generally speaking, this thread makes me sad. Just sad."

    Mr. Epee - 2012
    "Some people are born great fencers, some people achieve fencing greatness, and some people have it thrust upon them."

    My pet Monkey on an IBM selectric

  15. #35
    Senior Member Mr Epee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    lebenwelt
    Posts
    4,528
    Quote Originally Posted by piste off View Post
    "Generally speaking, this thread makes me sad. Just sad."

    Mr. Epee - 2012
    And I approve this message.
    Take your time. Read carefully.

  16. #36
    Senior Member telkanuru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    8,576
    I have the strangest feeling that this is an incredibly successful troll.
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

  17. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,283
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Epee View Post
    Generally speaking, this thread makes me sad. Just sad.
    Mr. Epee - 2012
    Still more inspiring than the GOP's candidates for 2012
    Allex likes this.
    Bonehead

  18. #38
    Posting Hound Purple Fencer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Panorama City, ca USA
    Posts
    14,111
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post
    Still more inspiring than the GOP's candidates for 2012
    THAT doesn't take much effort, however....
    Need fencing equipment? See me at H.O.M. Fencing Supply

    Going to your first tournament? Read "Choose yer weapon, Laddie (or: Dude, where's my foil?)"

  19. #39
    Senior Member piste off's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,188
    Quote Originally Posted by telkanuru View Post
    I have the strangest feeling that this is an incredibly successful troll.
    It HAS to be, right?

    PLEASE tell me I'm right! You would not want me to lose confidence and quit posting here, would you?

    Signed,

    A Fragile Flower
    "Some people are born great fencers, some people achieve fencing greatness, and some people have it thrust upon them."

    My pet Monkey on an IBM selectric

  20. #40
    Senior Member kmwong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    College Park, MD
    Posts
    265
    I believe that a fencing parent has legitimate concerns about their child's self-esteem. Even so, I am not agreeing with OP; sometimes you do have to fence the ref as well. The parent should NOT tell the child that the ref was just bad and that's why he lost. I am not saying that refs' mistakes don't change the victory in the bout, but as a fencer you have to realize this is one of the "necessary evils" of the sport. I surely have been resentful of calls made during my bouts, but I also realize that as a developmental ref myself, it can be really tough directing. His coach should work with him on ways to cope with situations where he thinks that the ref isn't seeing a particular action he's trying. Getting upset with the ref and letting the situation consume you while fencing is a recipe for failure. If I am not getting box calls, I try to catch my opponent in preparation, or pull distance and make him fall short. It's all about being versatile in your game...which comes with experience and going to a ton of competitions.
    -Kat
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Obama ruining our military
    By chase in forum Politics
    Replies: 300
    Last Post: 02-14-2010, 10:57 AM
  2. Confidence
    By Coby in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 06-05-2006, 10:34 AM
  3. Attention All Sons And Husbands...
    By chefencer in forum Water Cooler
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-15-2006, 09:49 PM
  4. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-29-2005, 12:18 PM
  5. Sadaam's Sons
    By npkeith in forum Water Cooler
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 07-28-2003, 09:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26