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Thread: LvL 5 referee requirement

  1. #1
    Senior Member jjefferies's Avatar
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    LvL 5 referee requirement

    Two questions:
    1. I'm trying to locate the original document which specifies that qualifiers have to have a level 5 referee. So far I've failed to locate it in the latest versions of The Athlete's Handbook, The USFA's Ops Manual, and I've even looked through the Fencing Rules Manual and some other minor docs. Could be I'm just missing it. Also is that requirement mentioned elsewhere or the referee's duties spelled out in any detail?

    2. The Fencing Rules Manual edited by Omar Bhutto is of course the english translation of the FIE manual which sets the rules for FIE run tournaments. But does it have any official or legal mandate for USFA sanctioned tournaments?

    thanks
    J Jefferies

  2. #2
    Posting Hound oiuyt's Avatar
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    The requirement "To require organizers of Divisional and Sectional Qualifying Tournaments for National Championship tournaments arrange that at least one referee with a rating of five or higher is present at such events in order to achieve some minimum quality assurance." was passed by Board resolution in July, 2002. The minutes of that meeting are available on the USA Fencing website.

    Here is the rationale that was provided with the motion (present in the agenda from that meeting):

    Rationale: The presence of higher ranking and more experienced referees will help reduce parent and coach complaints and ensure fairness of the qualifying procedure. It will also encourage Divisions to develop referees, and provide opportunities for them to use their skills. A recent example: a group of 14 and 15 year olds self-refereed a Divisional Qualifying Round; a parent complained. Given the disparity in tournament strength and Divisional assets, one standard will not fit each situation, but a referee with a National rating (5 or above) should be invited. Most organizers can judge the number of other rated referees to match the strength level, entry and strips available. Organizers may find a list of the rated referees in the Division or Section on the FOC Web Site. Qualifying forms submitted to the National Office should list the referees that officiated.

    The FOC Development Committee has issued ratings to over 100 new referees in the past several seasons, and stands ready to help any Division or Section that wishes a seminar, tutorial, exams or recommendations for rated referees for qualifying events.
    Which document do you mean when you say "The Fencing Rules Manual?"

    Omar Bhutta (note spelling) is the editor of the USA Fencing rulebook titled "Fencing Rules." It contains the official USA Fencing rules, but is NOT the English translation of the FIE rulebook, which is kept and maintained by British Fencing.

    -B
    "Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

  3. #3
    Senior Member tdwg83's Avatar
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    8.3.1.4 of the Ops Manual
    4. Organizers of Divisional Qualifying Tournaments for National Championship tournaments mustarrange that at least one referee with a rating of five or higher is present at such tournaments in
    order to achieve some minimum quality assurance. [BOD July 2002]

  4. #4
    Senior Member Omar Bhutta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjefferies View Post
    Two questions:
    1. I'm trying to locate the original document which specifies that qualifiers have to have a level 5 referee. So far I've failed to locate it in the latest versions of The Athlete's Handbook, The USFA's Ops Manual, and I've even looked through the Fencing Rules Manual and some other minor docs. Could be I'm just missing it. Also is that requirement mentioned elsewhere or the referee's duties spelled out in any detail?

    2. The Fencing Rules Manual edited by Omar Bhutto is of course the english translation of the FIE manual which sets the rules for FIE run tournaments. But does it have any official or legal mandate for USFA sanctioned tournaments?

    thanks
    1) The location of this rule is documented in the USFA Board of Directors meeting minutes from July 2002. It is not currently documented in the Operations Manual or the Athlete's Handbook, and I've previously requested that it be added. I suspect you will see it in the next update of the OM. It can also be found in the Division Operating Guide.

    2) It is important to note that the official English translation of the FIE rules is maintained by the British fencing Association, not by me. The document I am the editor for is the official rulebook for United States fencing, and does have differences when compared to the international rules. It is created under the authority of the FOC and the Board of Directors of the USFA. This document is the authoritative source for the rules of fencing in the United States.

    Hope that helps.
    Omar J Bhutta
    USA Fencing Rulebook Editor

  5. #5
    Senior Member jjefferies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar Bhutta View Post
    2) It is important to note that the official English translation of the FIE rules is maintained by the British fencing Association, not by me. The document I am the editor for is the official rulebook for United States fencing, and does have differences when compared to the international rules. It is created under the authority of the FOC and the Board of Directors of the USFA. This document is the authoritative source for the rules of fencing in the United States.
    Hope that helps.
    Thank you it does. Other local documents will need to be upgraded to reflect what I find there.

    But not withstanding the board's earnest hopes that the presence of a level 5 referee will help improve the qualifying tournament is there any other detailing of that person's duties?
    J Jefferies

  6. #6
    Senior Member Omar Bhutta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjefferies View Post
    Thank you it does. Other local documents will need to be upgraded to reflect what I find there.

    But not withstanding the board's earnest hopes that the presence of a level 5 referee will help improve the qualifying tournament is there any other detailing of that person's duties?
    Other than the BoD motion above and the text quoted from the old OM, the only text that discusses it is the Division Operating Guide written by Buzz Hurst. It is available on the USFA website at http://usfencing.org/resources/divis...icer-resources .

    See Chapter 4, Tournament Management:

    Quote Originally Posted by USFA Division Operating Guide
    While we’re on the subject of Qualifiers, and because I can’t think of any other place to put this, there is an additional requirement placed upon them. The USFA Board of Directors, at its July 2002 meeting, decided that a Division must have at least one referee with a “5” rating or higher present at any local qualifying tournament. Contrary to popular opinion, the purpose behind this policy is not so much to have a nationally-rated referee for your Finals, but to insure that every Division has someone with a proven level of expertise on the Rule Book available to assist the Bout Committee. In fact, the “5” might not direct a bout all day, but if he or she is available for consultation, it fills the bill.
    Omar J Bhutta
    USA Fencing Rulebook Editor

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