Tales From the 2012 Duke Home Meet

[Capt. Slo-mo]

I love college fencing...

Sure, it has its murky, Byzantine points rules, and a pesky NCAA regulation tome the breadth of the NYC phone book. NCAA varsity competitions may lack Grand Prix talent depth from the top to the bottom, but they more than compensate with the sheer joy of boisterous team fencing moments.

Some tales from the 2012 Duke Home Meet:


Touching with Style:
In the 2nd match up of the morning, the undefeated Duke WS team of Becca Ward, Sean Cadley and Kodia Baye-Cigna took on their toughest rival—the squad from reigning national champ Penn State. Kodia and Sean struggle a bit against the Penn State trio, all of whom have extensive international and National Team experience. In the end, they can only muster one win between them, and the Duke team loses a heart-breaker, 4-5. Then it was time for the UNC Tarheels, and that's never a casual event for Duke, whether it be fencing or basketball or tiddlywinks. Kodia, a sophomore sitting in the #3 team competition slot, has to shake off her one point loss to Penn State's Jessica Russo, and help seal a squad victory against the dreaded Tarheel women. If Sports Center had a highlight countdown for fencing...the final touch of this bout would be replayed for a year.

Up 4-2, Kodia lets her opponent sneak back to a 4-4 tie. There is a furiously contested point ranging up and down the strip at a frantic tempo. Backpedaling at full speed, near the end of her strip, Kodia elects to try what may arguably be the most difficult move in saber: a full stop, full squat ducking 5-parry. To make this work, the fencer has to see a head cut coming, stop on a dime and drop in a squat almost to the strip, with their saber blade snapped up protectively overhead. They must then catch and hold the opponent's blade above their mask, and make an immediate riposte from the squat. If they fully rise to riposte, they risk standing directly up into the parried blade before being able to strike their foe. It's a move that requires extreme athleticism, nerves of steel, fast-twitch reflexes and an ability to just say “what the heck, I'm going for it!”

Kodia nails it for a one-light victory.

And then there is a scene seldom observed at a World Cup event. The entire team, men's and women's, plus the crowd of students and parents, erupts into a frenzy. The Duke team runs out onto the strip. Kodia is mobbed. Sure, the match was in hand. Duke had already won numerically, but that doesn't matter during college fencing. The Duke WS captain, herself a multiple World Champion, Olympic medalist and NCCA Champion, is jumping up and down and screaming like a 13 year old girl just given a back stage pass to a Justin Bieber concert.

Kodia may never execute a sublimely perfect touch like that again...but on this day, in that moment, she owns a moment of sheer joy to last an entire career.

Don't Hold the Snark:
The next tale comes courtesy of the men's fencing team, also against their mortal rivals UNC. Duke is leading comfortably, but has not yet put the match away when the very large and raucous UNC contingent (who has been fiercely cheering each and every victorious point) breaks into an extended serenade of the classic “Heels” chant heard at all UNC basketball games. Now, Duke is not a school to take their cheering lightly: the Cameron Crazies have been known to chant “Safety School, Safety School” during an opponent introduction at Cameron Indoor Stadium. To Georgetown, no less.

Faced with the “Heels” assault, the Duke men immediately counter with a verbal riposte that borders on rubbing salt into an open wound. In a boisterous sing-song, the Duke squad launches into an “ 'Austin Rivers!', clap-clap, clap-clap-clap” counter. Rivers being the Duke basketball player who swished a 3-pointer at the buzzer to beat UNC only days before. At UNC.

Ouch.

"Rudy" Gets to Fence:
Meet 4th year senior Justin “Sandy” Goldsmith. Now, many varsity men's fencers at Duke often get a snarky nickname—a fencer who hardly says a word freshman year is forever called “Loudy;” another fencer with a giant ginger Afro and luxurious beard is dubbed “Q-Tip.” You get the picture. No one can tell me how Justin got his nickname, but I suspect it had something to do with his jet black hair, perpetual beard shadow and thick black hair on his legs. You never know.

Here's the deal about Sandy. He is in his final year at Duke as a saber fencer. He has come to all the practices and put in all the work every season, even though he freely admits he was not a high caliber fencer when he arrived as a freshman. Sandy has never made the traveling squad, never been bused to NCAA dual meets with the rest of his varsity teammates, never participated in the NCAA post season. In fact, he has never even fenced in a single bout his entire career at Duke.

But on this Saturday, in the final Duke Home Meet of his college career, Duke Fencing's “Rudy” gets the call.

Now, don't get me wrong—Sandy is a real athlete with powerful legs perhaps more suited to a wrestler or fullback...he's just never been able to crack the top three in his weapon and earn a regular starting position. When Duke coach Alex Beguinet makes the substitution half way through the final match of the day with Johns Hopkins, a full-throated chant of “Sandy! Sandy! Sandy! Sandy!” erupts from the team. Almost in a daze, Sandy wanders for the first time towards a collegiate fencing strip, encased in a luminescent Duke lame, teammates slapping him on the shoulders as he passes. He can't wipe the huge yet embarrassed grin off his face, but his eyes are a little wild, and it seems there's a bit of an “Oh $hit...what do I do now?” panic lurking there.

Sandy puts on his mask, takes a deep breath and comes on guard. He explodes off the line and scores his first touch so fast his opponent hardly has time to react. Sandy's teammates go berserk. Sandy has an enormous grin on his face that would be visible through an opaque mask. He toes the line again. Another launch, another point, and the crowd goes ballistic. Of course, it's too good to last. Sandy's opponent pulls the distance card a couple of time, hooks a blade and Sandy is now down 2-3...but the encouragement just gets louder from the guys clustered behind him. Sandy grabs a point with a nifty move, but then gets caught coming forward, and now it's 3-4 and his foe is beginning to take his measure. It's been a good run and a good bout for the 4th year rookie, but this isn't a Disney movie.

Someone forgets to inform Justin “Sandy” Goldsmith, Duke's Fencing's Oldest Rookie.

I wish I could tell you how he scored point number four to force “la belle.” I vaguely recall thinking it was an action he had no reason to expect to pull off so effortlessly. Now everyone in the stands and in the team holding area are on their feet, screaming encouragement. It's total cacophony. A lightning launch off the line for both fencers, but the ref calls it simultaneous, no touch. Sandy steps to the line, raises his blade...and for a moment, silence drops onto the venue like there is not a millibar of atmospheric pressure left to support a sound wave.

The ref signals “fence,” and Sandy advance-lunges into Duke fencing legend. There is absolute pandemonium. All for a college meet. All for a bout unimportant to the W-L ledger...but of ultimate importance for a fencer who was given his chance...and then made the most of it when it counted. Had this indeed been scripted by Disney, Sandy would have been carted off the strip on his teammates' shoulders in slow motion, but let's remember, Sandy is a manly sized guy, and frankly, he's getting pummeled so hard in the scrum of his jubilant teammates, there's not a free hand for a power hoist.

When the crowd clears a bit, Duke's perennially calm and stoic coach Alex Beguinet bounds up to Sandy, beaming a titanic, jaw-splitting smile, and bouncing up and down as he engulfs his much larger fencer in a bone-crushing bear hug.

Saturday, February 11, 2012. Duke senior Justin “Sandy” Goldsmith fences his first and final bout for the Blue Devils, and retires undefeated with a perfect, unblemished 1-0 record.

And that's why I love college fencing.

[indypacers]

sounds pretty cool,,,,,

like the Dominican team at the Pan-Am trials this past summer. See you at NCAA's again in C-Bus!

[edew]

Sweet thread.

[fencer92]

I don't care what they say about collegiate fencing it is inspiring to watch. It is truly a "team sport".

Fencer's Mom

[Mac A. Bee]

Slo-mo, You've been watching Howard Cosell clips? I *love* your description! So vivid. You *have* to send it to "Sports Illustrated".

[prototoast]

I don't care what they say about collegiate fencing it is inspiring to watch.

Who says what about collegiate fencing?

[prototoast]

Slo-mo, You've been watching Howard Cosell clips? I *love* your description! So vivid. You *have* to send it to "Sports Illustrated".

Now that's just rude.

[fencer92]

Who says what about collegiate fencing?

It has been mentioned before on this forum that "college is where good fencers go never to be heard from again". Perhaps this is no longer the case and we have never subscribed to this train of thought.

Fencer's Mom

[MyrddinsPrecint]

It has been mentioned before on this forum that "college is where good fencers go never to be heard from again". Perhaps this is no longer the case and we have never subscribed to this train of thought.

Fencer's Mom

..... I haven't heard that.

Did I miss that? I'm missing so many things these days....

[ysbadadden]

Kudos for good writing -- would that all that's written about fencing were that exciting and that much fun to read,

[brak]

It has been mentioned before on this forum that "college is where good fencers go never to be heard from again". Perhaps this is no longer the case and we have never subscribed to this train of thought.

Fencer's Mom

Why are they never heard from again?

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Brak: this has been discussed in depth elsewhere on the board, but I'm not sure there's a standalone thread for you to search. So here goes:

The conventional wisdom has been that exceptional Junior fencers spend an inordinate deal of time, effort and focus on fencing during their high school years; practicing, traveling and training for international competition takes up most of their available attention. Once a fencer goes off to college, their focus almost inevitably has to shift; there just isn't enough time in the day to cover college classes and perform the same level of training. Plus, there are only a handful of college programs that have the depth in an individual weapon to give the same quality of training as a Junior fencer may have experienced every day back home at the salle.

Once they are no longer totally immersed in chasing every FIE point possible, some of the fencers begin to recognize that there is a life outside of fencing, and begin enjoying the new challenges and rewards of a rich college experience. With this altered vision, (and the unfortunate reality that they now need to get a job, and can't jet off to Orleans anytime they need to) the ranks of the former international level fencer thin out dramatically.

There can be exceptions. For instance, when Becca headed off to Duke, the National WS coach told the local Durham paper that, after four years in college "...just qualifying for the U.S. national team would be difficult, and when the added time for traveling is factored in, it would be nearly impossible to return."

At the January 2012 NAC in Portland, (which had two of three top candidates for the final Olympic slot on the WS team attending), even after four years in college fencing, Becca ran the table and won the event, including a semi-final win over one of the Olympic contenders.

But yes...as has been noted many times, there are few who go the full four years in college, and then have the desire and ability to resume full time international fencing successfully.

[brak]

Brak: this has been discussed in depth elsewhere on the board, but I'm not sure there's a standalone thread for you to search. So here goes:

The conventional wisdom has been that exceptional Junior fencers spend an inordinate deal of time, effort and focus on fencing during their high school years; practicing, traveling and training for international competition takes up most of their available attention. Once a fencer goes off to college, their focus almost inevitably has to shift; there just isn't enough time in the day to cover college classes and perform the same level of training. Plus, there are only a handful of college programs that have the depth in an individual weapon to give the same quality of training as a Junior fencer may have experienced every day back home at the salle.

Once they are no longer totally immersed in chasing every FIE point possible, some of the fencers begin to recognize that there is a life outside of fencing, and begin enjoying the new challenges and rewards of a rich college experience. With this altered vision, (and the unfortunate reality that they now need to get a job, and can't jet off to Orleans anytime they need to) the ranks of the former international level fencer thin out dramatically.

There can be exceptions. For instance, when Becca headed off to Duke, the National WS coach told the local Durham paper that, after four years in college "...just qualifying for the U.S. national team would be difficult, and when the added time for traveling is factored in, it would be nearly impossible to return."

At the January 2012 NAC in Portland, (which had two of three top candidates for the final Olympic slot on the WS team attending), even after four years in college fencing, Becca ran the table and won the event, including a semi-final win over one of the Olympic contenders.

But yes...as has been noted many times, there are few who go the full four years in college, and then have the desire and ability to resume full time international fencing successfully.

well if u ask most high level fencers why they got into fencing, one of the reasons that come up is to get into a good college, not necessarily because they wanna be in the olympics or something. so it makes sense that they're not heard from after college. thats why i started fencing and it helped me get into colleges cuz it looks good on resume's and u can get recruited and stuff.

plus when she said "never heard from again" i thought she meant like they actually never hear frm them again, like they get sent away to evil camps or plum island or something

[Capt. Slo-mo]

thats why i started fencing and it helped me get into colleges cuz it looks good on resume's and u can get recruited and stuff.

I am curious, and ask this with no particular rancor. What college did you get into with the aid of fencing, and did your application require a written essay?

[ysbadadden]

Maybe the conventional analysis of why college graduates drop out is flawed. The top level of college fencers overlaps substantially with the top level of national fencers. Many, or most, of them compete nationally. Suppose they all want to go to the Olympics. Now, take a graduating senior this year, age 22, and ranked 8th nationally in her weapon. She's not going to go to the Olympics this year. Is she going to put her life on hold on the chance that she'll go in 2016? In most cases, I don't think so. If she graduated two years ago, she might try to combine two years of high-level competition with two years of work or grad school. Some might do that. But the farther off the prize seems, the more likely she is to switch goals. If she lives and works or studies close to a center of fencing activity, maybe she'll stick with it. If she's a petroleum geologist in Oklahoma, probably not.
You might as well say that college is where basketball players go never to be heard of again.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Of course, the Olympics is not the only metric, nor the only venue for post collegiate fencing. Other than that, generally valid points.

[Soberin]

Of course, the Olympics is not the only metric, nor the only venue for post collegiate fencing. Other than that, generally valid points.

The Olympics is certainly not the only goal as noted above. Going for the Senior World Team is another/alternative goal, but no less difficult.

The real problem is that there are not enough domestic Div I events for fencers who have aged-out of Juniors. After your soph year of college, you just have Div I, which you have most likely been fencing since age 13 anyway. So if you are top 12-24 in your weapon in Seniors after college, what do you do? The Senior points list is heavily weighted toward Gp II international events, so it is even more difficult to make time for foreign travel.

The answer is to have a Div I NAC every month. If Y14 kids have SYC and NACs, and Cadets can fence practically everything, then why not our Seniors? Until the USFA provides enough opportunities for our Seniors ( don't forget, our teen prodigies of today are the Seniors of today AND tomorrow) as well as working with the FIE to develop more international ( U-23) events, our older fencers will quit.

[downunder]

Until the USFA provides enough opportunities for our Seniors ( don't forget, our teen prodigies of today are the Seniors of today AND tomorrow) as well as working with the FIE to develop more international ( U-23) events, our older fencers will quit.

The reason why non-junior fencers quit is because of a lack of competitions?

I quit at 19 because international senior fencing is really hard and I could party hard but still see fencing buddies if I refereed. I could perfectly understand the same logic for others minus the standing around in a cheap suit part.

[telkanuru]

The reason why non-junior fencers quit is because of a lack of competitions?

I quit at 19 because international senior fencing is really hard and I could party hard but still see fencing buddies if I refereed. I could perfectly understand the same logic for others minus the standing around in a cheap suit part.

The drop-off in available tournaments in the US after aging out of Juniors is pretty steep. It's a hard thing to adjust to, in terms of expectations and motivation.

[Purple Fencer]

The reason why non-junior fencers quit is because of a lack of competitions?

I haven't noticed that....plenty of post-college age people out here competing on a regular basis.

@ Sobrien...

If you're trying to get to Becca's level I could maybe see retiring post college...you have to get a job and a life, and not everyone can had a full time job fencing to train for the next Olympics or Worlds.

But there;s always fencing just for the fun of it....you know...the reason some people get involved in the first place....not to win medals???