Capital CRASH 2012

[hello?]

My point is that FIE referees aren't the draw for the SYC, but are ideal to provide the mentoring for the developmental referees.

I'm sure you noticed the number of young referees we had. Several were under 17 (and also competed in a cadet event -- one of the other reasons to have the Cadet events). We also had 4 teenagers (including a 12yo) working tableside on BC. Part of our hiring plan is to bring in the young and up-and-coming refs/BC.

My goal in the hiring IS to guide the kids into becoming qualified referees and BC workers.

I think this was excellent reasoning. The Youth-parents probably have absolutely no idea who the "celebrity referees" are (or even that there's a difference between good and bad ones) -- but they will certainly make the event more attractive for up-and-coming refs.

[bigdawg2121]

I wasn't at CC2012, had no involvement whatsoever, and am offering this as a complete aside to the more important discussion by people who know better. There are plenty of us former fencers whose kids now fence and who have taken the ref course (from no less a personage than Greg Dilworth, I might add) who are never asked and never used. We most assuredly aren't level 3 refs, but then, we'll never be level 3 if we're not used.

In the meantime, we're there in a pinch to help. We've always been available to help. That's how parents (the other half, not the ones screaming that 10-year-old Timmy needs an FIE ref) are. Helpful.

Carry on.

So a few weeks ago there was a thread here asking if anyone wanted to referee or help out at this event. Any parents interested in doing just that could have responded to the thread, even if the response was "I'm going to be around and could help you rock through pools in these events if you're in a crunch but I'm not interested in refereeing full time" I'm sure it would have been noted and appreciated. If you're in the venue and an organizer is in a crunch and you haven't previously made your presence known, let's be honest they probably have bigger issues to tackle than asking each parent if they used to fence or have passed the seminar.

As a final thought, I'd also like to add this: taking the seminar does not make one a referee as that's accomplished by passing the exam and then being observed. If you've never been observed and rated then before someone can send you out on your own at a tournament of this type they have to send you out with another referee capable of observing and/or sharing the burden, which still means they need a referee for your strip.

[JAG]

You are absolutely right. Assuming we've passed the test (and I apologize for leaving out every step along the way), it would seem better to be observed and rated locally before offering to do larger or national competitions, for which we're neither ready nor qualified. But if parents are ignored locally, we never get into the pipeline to come out the other end prepared and competent to offer help in the big time.

I guess the point is that some of us may be good for things other than paying bills and driving kids to tournaments. As resources go, we're untapped.

[Mergs]

So, it seems that there are a nunber of folks that are available for temporary duty at tournaments. A suggestion would be to let either the BC or Registration folks know, either ahead of time or at the time of registration that you are there and would be willing to help out, on a pro bono basis. Recognizing, of course, that you would be expected to be in proper attire for the work you are volunteering for.

[KD5MDK]

JAG - I suspect most of the Virginia and Maryland parent-volunteers were already put to work. You're from New York and I have no idea who you are. I suspect dsapery doesn't either. Unless you have a significant referee rating on foc.askfred.net there's no way for people not around you to find out that you're available and what your skills are.

Maybe we could create some kind of link in FRED so that when a fencer who is or whose parent/sibling/etc is a referee signs up the organizer is notified they might be available. But that's probably too complicated.

[academe]

JAG - I suspect most of the Virginia and Maryland parent-volunteers were already put to work. You're from New York and I have no idea who you are. I suspect dsapery doesn't either. Unless you have a significant referee rating on foc.askfred.net there's no way for people not around you to find out that you're available and what your skills are.

Maybe we could create some kind of link in FRED so that when a fencer who is or whose parent/sibling/etc is a referee signs up the organizer is notified they might be available. But that's probably too complicated.

There is an e-mail the organizer link for tournaments already. Easy enough to contact and ask.

[JAG]

JAG - I suspect most of the Virginia and Maryland parent-volunteers were already put to work. You're from New York and I have no idea who you are. I suspect dsapery doesn't either. Unless you have a significant referee rating on foc.askfred.net there's no way for people not around you to find out that you're available and what your skills are.

I apologize again, as I'm obviously still not being clear. My comment wasn't directed specifically to CC2012, but more generally to the issue of the availability of referees, and the interest in developing a larger cadre of refs so that they're available when larger competitions occur. If clubs tap this resource ahead of time by developing parents into rated refs, so that they have an additional resource of rated and competent refs when they need them, we will be available when they do need us.

As for me, I wouldn't have been at CC2012 regardless, as my son is past youth and cadet fencing, and I'm not in the area. But I would be happy to help out at competitions closer to home, whether it's reffing, collecting fees or serving pizza. The point is, we're happy to help, and if there is a gap in available (and affordable) reffing, we're here.

What's interesting is that instead of embracing an untapped resource, the idea seems to be meeting the same resistance (and excuses) that we get from local clubs. So even as some complain about there not being enough refs, and my suggestion that parents are an untapped resource, my sense is that no one is particularly interested in parents as a solution. So, never mind, and carry on with the complaining.

[bigdawg2121]

Over the course of the several posts that I've seen on the topic pretty much everyone has said the same thing, which basically amounts to "if you're available/want to help out and you know it, tell an organizer". Frankly, I'm all for parents helping out, I even let parents that have never fenced before but want to learn/help out referee bouts at the club; they may never become "real" referees but they can do their part, learn something about what their kid is doing and maybe even referee the occasional bout unsupervised if we're all busy with lessons or some such. The only "resistance" tends to be people pointing out that simply a desire to help is not always sufficient in/of itself to actually render one helpful. Tournament organizers can't use unrated referees that they or the person assigning have never seen referee anymore than they could use a random person off the street EVEN if there's reason to suspect you might do a good job b/c there's absolutely no evidence to back-up that suspicion. Organizers approached mid-event are probably too busy managing the event to need more help, outside of hey move X or pick up Y; rarely does show person where we are and let them help with DT or find a referee and strip that they can be observed on in an event that isn't too far along manage to be on the list of plausible things. Help. Please help!! Pretty please with a cherry on TOP!!! Just do it the right way. If you took the seminar, pass the test; if you passed the test, get observed; if you've been observed and don't have a rating high enough that the organizers might contact you anyway, drop them a line at least a day or so before you head to event, or better, when you first think to yourself "I'll be around, I could help out". If you're just wondering why coaches, organizers, etc don't do a better job of finding you the parent who who wants to referee and personally soliciting your help I suspect the answer is that there are far more parents than there are coaches and organizers. Most of them have no desire to red or run BC, and sifting out the ones that do really isn't the most efficient use of coach/organizer time....oddly, I've found that mist parents truly interested in helping just come up and offer it.

[Mergs]

OK, so here's a thought. In order to generate a bit of extra income, why don't organizers put on a 'Referee 101' or 'Armorers 101' Clinic that lasts a couple of hours? I have had a lot of fun working with parents that come up to the table and start asking questions about how stuff works, etc. At the end of it all, you have someone that you can put 'on the firing line' to assist both Refs and Armorers (and it also gives me a chance to hawk my book! ) Seems to me to be a part of the overall education process of parents, and fencers, that is lacking in what we do. Im going to see if this is something we can incorporate into next year's CC.

[fencerina dad]

Ok Sparky. I will add it to the list for next years Clash !! "Armorers 101" or "Ask the Armorer"

D

[Mergs]

Well, it's something to discuss having at least.

[hello?]

(and it also gives me a chance to hawk my book! ) .

What is your book? : )

[Allen Evans]

It's the sweeping story of a Southern belle, torn from her family by the tragedy of war, and how she wanders the distant corners of the earth, searching for both her true love, and the fortune in treasure, hidden previously by her wicked stepmother. Along the way, she meets a caste of characters, and, well....I wouldn't want to spoil the story for you.

A

[wakeup]

I thought it was about the Care and Feeding of Armorers...

[bigdawg2121]

I thought it was about the Care and Feeding of Armorers...

So it's a book about Guinness?

[telkanuru]

So it's a book about Guinness?

"Fill 3/4, let rest, back off the tap the rest of the way, and if you paint a shamrock in it, I'm allowed to stab you in the eye with a fork" isn't really a book, is it?

[academe]

"Fill 3/4, let rest, back off the tap the rest of the way, and if you paint a shamrock in it, I'm allowed to stab you in the eye with a fork" isn't really a book, is it?

More of a first draft, really.

[telkanuru]

More of a first draft, really.

I'll hop to some more research.

[Mergs]

So it's a book about Guinness?

Et la! Brilliant. But that's only the first chapter.

[wakeup]

"Fill 3/4, let rest, back off the tap the rest of the way, and if you paint a shamrock in it, I'm allowed to stab you in the eye with a fork" isn't really a book, is it?

Now available as a Kindle Single...