US Fencing Future Stars Program.

[saberfencing]

I am surprised that so many people are SO negative about the program/Camp. Nothing pleases everyone and we should appreciate USFA puts an attempt to support the growth of our youth fencers and I think it is a very good start. Selecting the top 15 fencers is a good approach since that is the selection method for US fencing at all levels. Top 3 or 4 goes to London and the national training camp is also invitation to the top fencers only. Most of the alternate program suggestions by others are valid too but USFA must start from somewhere and youth development is not a bad place to start. Seniors, Jr and Cadets all need support too but we need to be patience. We should all be supportive so that the program can be further refine instead of the negativity of accusing the association and at times, to the parents themselves.

[oiuyt]

So then, where should the USFA help? The gap in training, funding, and competition opportunities is with Div I level fencers who are in college, or just out. There is a huge group just below the top 12, who are serious fencers, and are not committed to a job or grad school. I believe that our Senior fencers at this stage of life could contribute greatly to the further development of our national teams, as well as increase the quality of US fencing overall. Even if there is still no U23 FIE circuit, it doesn't mean the USFA should neglect these fencers. Where is the strategic plan for them?

Strategy 4.1
Strategy 5.2

Pillow & Teacup you both are on point I USFA was really about growing the sport and moving in a positive direction they would be partnering and encourage the regrowth of fencing at the collegiate level.

Strategy 4.5. As well as benefits from many of the other items.

-B

[pillow]

Strategy 4.1
Strategy 5.2



Strategy 4.5. As well as benefits from many of the other items.

-B

I was fully expecting your reply, including the references, but I'm surprised you didn't provide the actual hyperlink.

More to the point--how many years has the current administration been in power now? And how many of these strategies noted above are currently up and running?

[oiuyt]

You expected the reply, including specific references to the plans that you were implying didn't exist?

The Strategic Plan was developed through sessions last February, May, August and September, as well as considerable independent work by people between meetings. The plan includes specific dates and time lines for nearly all items. Some have been completed, others have missed their deadlines, and many have upcoming deadlines with progress that ranges from on/ahead of schedule to likely-to-be-missed.

Kalle and Greg have been working together regularly since the plan was adopted to track progress on each item and progress reports have started to be made to the Board. A large number of plan items are due concurrently with the Board meeting at JOs* and it is expected that a significant amount of time during that meeting will be dedicated to evaluating the results, as well as reviewing the plan, assessing any needed modifications, and discussion of future directions or refinements. There are also a large number of items due in July, and I expect another significant status evaluation to take place in Anaheim.

How do you define the "current administration?" Three of fifteen current Board members were added this season (although one was a recent former member). The Board, as a whole, was significantly changed eighteen months ago. The Executive Director was changed nineteen months ago. The plan came from the work of the new Board, new ED and staff, as well as the work of a number of other people that contributed to areas in which they have specialized knowledge, history or experience.

The plan is a work in progress. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Are there elements not yet added or that require considerably more detail? Sure. Are there going to be issues in implementation? No question. Is it much better than the haphazard react-to-the-emergency-in-front-of-you approach that has plagued our organization for years? I believe so.

A lot of the current Strategic Plan is plan to make plans. As those plans are developed, we'll get a much better and more complete picture of where we're going and how we're going to address needs for all of our various groups and constituencies. Including high-level post-collegiate athletes (Pillow) and collegiate programs (indypacers). As mentioned above, many of those plans are scheduled to be presented in either February or July.

-B

* Reminder: This is an open meeting and anyone in Salt Lake City in a couple of weeks is welcome and encouraged to attend. The meeting will be split over two sessions Saturday and Sunday evenings. An agenda will likely be available on the USA Fencing website approximately one week prior to the meeting

[swordsen]

Don't expect many to show up Oiyut. It is easier to snipe, gripe and snark in the corner than to actually do something.

[wakeup]

Selecting the top 15 fencers is a good approach since that is the selection method for US fencing at all levels.

That doesn't follow. At an early developmental stage, designate-future-stars-and-direct-resources-toward-them isn't the best strategy for identifying and fostering talent, especially in situations where playing fields aren't level but are profoundly affected by family resources and early exposure.

[joralemon]

That doesn't follow. At an early developmental stage, designate-future-stars-and-direct-resources-toward-them isn't the best strategy for identifying and fostering talent, especially in situations where playing fields aren't level but are profoundly affected by family resources and early exposure.

Completely agree that the playing field isn't level due to family resources. I think the one thing everyone on this thread agrees on is how problematic it is that having the money to travel to tournaments factors into the rankings. I would love to see USFA establish some kind of aid for families who want their kids to compete but can't afford to hop on planes and stay in hotels six times a year.. Has an idea like this ever been considered?

As for early exposure, I'm not convinced it's a "profound" factor. I've seen kids who started fencing much later than my kid (he started at six, very very young) do very well. I've also seen kids who have been fencing as long who never come close to making the 8 (again, I only know boys foil).

Finally, are the kids who will be at this camp (and note, as I said earlier, most of these kids will be out of U14 when the camp takes place) really at an "early developmental stage?" I don't think so.

[wakeup]

If they started fencing at 6 or 8, then maybe it's not an early developmental stage (although I can't say for sure -- I have no idea what fencing instruction looks like at that age); if they started at 12 or 13, it is. The developmental stage I was referencing was of their fencing skills (not just physical/intellectual maturity. although that's presumably an issue as well and Y14 certainly encompasses kids on both sides of puberty).

And, sure, not all kids who started very young do well, even with years of experience. But two kids with equal potential for fencing greatness (however that's conceptualized -- but to make the point, we could look retrospectively at folks who achieved it) would, presumably, have looked really different from each other at age 14 if one had 2 years of experience at that stage and another had 6 years.

Personally, I'd rather see a system that doesn't force kids to hop on planes and stay in hotels six times a year (regardless of who pays) to develop their fencing skills. Obviously, that's not a quick fix, but to me it's a better model/ideal. SYCs and ROCs seem like a step in the right direction. And I'd love to see a robust domestic Cadet/Junior circuit. That's before we get to school-based programs.

[ravlik]

That doesn't follow. At an early developmental stage, designate-future-stars-and-direct-resources-toward-them isn't the best strategy for identifying and fostering talent, especially in situations where playing fields aren't level but are profoundly affected by family resources and early exposure.

Do not worry about dicent fencers with dicent finances, they already have camps in Italy, Germany and the likes. From this perspective the discussed camp looks like an attempt to keep money and talents in USA

[Jason]

That doesn't follow. At an early developmental stage, designate-future-stars-and-direct-resources-toward-them isn't the best strategy for identifying and fostering talent, especially in situations where playing fields aren't level but are profoundly affected by family resources and early exposure.

And physiological development. Things like growth spurts, puberty, and emotional development have a real effect on youth results. That effect vanishes after a year or two, when everyone has caught up developmentally. This is one of the reasons why youth results are not indicative of future success. Billy suddenly gets 6 inches taller one year and is cleaning up in Y14; a couple of years later, everyone has gotten bigger and suddenly the fact that Billy doesn't really know how to fence has caught up with him.

There is no shortage of top Seniors who were not "Future Star" material when they were 14.

[wakeup]

Do not worry about dicent fencers with dicent finances, they already have camps in Italy, Germany and the likes. From this perspective the discussed camp looks like an attempt to keep money and talents in USA

Or to induce successful Y14s to define their peer group (and "future stars") as kids who fence internationally starting in their early teens.

[saberfencing]

Level playing field? The wealthy will ALWAYS have an advantage on opportunities. Personal trainers, private lessons and home schooling are just facts that some children have over others. But that does not change the fact that Fencing is no different than tennis or golf etc that certain amount of financial burden is put on to the parents and it is the parent's decision whether to put their children into the sport. Don't blame the sport, the parents had a choice. Again, we should be happy and appreciative that USFA is putting up a development program for the kids that showed potentials regardless of their family background.

[saberfencing]

More regional and domestic focus are the right approach and anytime someone goes internationally to represent "USA", the association should carry the financial burden not the parents.

[pillow]

You expected the reply, including specific references to the plans that you were implying didn't exist?

The Strategic Plan was developed through sessions last February, May, August and September, as well as considerable independent work by people between meetings. The plan includes specific dates and time lines for nearly all items. Some have been completed, others have missed their deadlines, and many have upcoming deadlines with progress that ranges from on/ahead of schedule to likely-to-be-missed.

Kalle and Greg have been working together regularly since the plan was adopted to track progress on each item and progress reports have started to be made to the Board. A large number of plan items are due concurrently with the Board meeting at JOs* and it is expected that a significant amount of time during that meeting will be dedicated to evaluating the results, as well as reviewing the plan, assessing any needed modifications, and discussion of future directions or refinements. There are also a large number of items due in July, and I expect another significant status evaluation to take place in Anaheim.

How do you define the "current administration?" Three of fifteen current Board members were added this season (although one was a recent former member). The Board, as a whole, was significantly changed eighteen months ago. The Executive Director was changed nineteen months ago. The plan came from the work of the new Board, new ED and staff, as well as the work of a number of other people that contributed to areas in which they have specialized knowledge, history or experience.

The plan is a work in progress. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Are there elements not yet added or that require considerably more detail? Sure. Are there going to be issues in implementation? No question. Is it much better than the haphazard react-to-the-emergency-in-front-of-you approach that has plagued our organization for years? I believe so.

A lot of the current Strategic Plan is plan to make plans. As those plans are developed, we'll get a much better and more complete picture of where we're going and how we're going to address needs for all of our various groups and constituencies. Including high-level post-collegiate athletes (Pillow) and collegiate programs (indypacers). As mentioned above, many of those plans are scheduled to be presented in either February or July.

-B

* Reminder: This is an open meeting and anyone in Salt Lake City in a couple of weeks is welcome and encouraged to attend. The meeting will be split over two sessions Saturday and Sunday evenings. An agenda will likely be available on the USA Fencing website approximately one week prior to the meeting

Thanks for the explanation, but I confess, it sounds like a good deal of double-talk, although I'm sure with the best intentions.

How do I define the "current administration?" I define it by Kalle, period. She has been the President of the USFA for almost a full quad, and the buck stops with her. Surely this strategic plan could have been done within the first two years of her leadership. Instead, we have a bunch of stuff that's first coming to the attention of the membership just before the Olympics, and just before a new election. Not great timing, considering the fact that if the membership is going to be allowed to have input ( I hope so, and by email, not just by personally attending a meeting at a NAC) this stuff should have been available years ago.

In summary, if I understand correctly---I should make plans to review the plans that are about the plans that may be implemented at some point in the future to "address our various groups..."---that is, if they are not behind schedule.

Paging George Orwell.

[oiuyt]

In summary, if I understand correctly---I should make plans to review the plans that are about the plans that may be implemented at some point in the future to "address our various groups..."---that is, if they are not behind schedule.

Only if you want to be able to provide input or help improve the process.

-B

[Allex]

Thanks for the explanation, but I confess, it sounds like a good deal of double-talk, although I'm sure with the best intentions.

How do I define the "current administration?" I define it by Kalle, period. She has been the President of the USFA for almost a full quad, and the buck stops with her. Surely this strategic plan could have been done within the first two years of her leadership. Instead, we have a bunch of stuff that's first coming to the attention of the membership just before the Olympics, and just before a new election. Not great timing, considering the fact that if the membership is going to be allowed to have input ( I hope so, and by email, not just by personally attending a meeting at a NAC) this stuff should have been available years ago.

In summary, if I understand correctly---I should make plans to review the plans that are about the plans that may be implemented at some point in the future to "address our various groups..."---that is, if they are not behind schedule.

Paging George Orwell.

1. Brad - thanks for an open and clear reply; unfortunately most of Pillow's reply is on the money.
2. IIRC the meeting last year took place well before Epee was over.
I read over the plan and some of it's decisions have not made self imposed deadlines AFAIK.
3.Somehow, the USA Fencing website can be challenging to navigate for pertinent info.
When you do know - can you please post the meetings' times and agendas' links here?
Thanks in advance, and thanks again for your willingness to communicate.

[pillow]

Only if you want to be able to provide input or help improve the process.

-B

Believe me, I'm trying my best, despite my cynicism.

[saberfencing]

\We can also name equal number of Y14 fencers who have continued to perform well even into their senior years. Chances are, you will find a handful of potential future fencers among the top 15 fencers and I believe the percentage drops if we pick them from any other groups. No one is disputing that there are always future great fencers outside of the top15 group and in time, they will be spotted at the cadet, Jr or senior levels. I hope USFA development program is not restricted to Y14 only, but will expand their attentions to all levels moving forward.

[Jason]

\We can also name equal number of Y14 fencers who have continued to perform well even into their senior years.

An equal number? Absolutely not. For point of reference, here is the Y14 list from WS in 2007. How many of the top girls are currently in the top of the Junior list? Is it an equal number to those who aren't? Hells no. Almost all of them aren't. In fact, many of them are names you won't even see at competitions anymore. Fun fact, though: number 16 in 2007 Y14 WS is the current Junior #1.

There is little or no correlation between youth success and success later on.

[saberfencing]

MS -- 6 are still in top 15 and 10 are in top 32.
Mfoil - 7 are still in top 15 and 10 are in top 32. we can go on and on with other weapons. ... That is a decent %
WS -- 8 are still in teh top 15 and 10 in the top 32. ... Jr #1 is Russo where she is #4 in 2007-2008 season.... not bad.