Results 1 to 20 of 20
Like Tree26Likes
  • 3 Post By Beloit Fencer of Old
  • 8 Post By bigdawg2121
  • 1 Post By Purple Fencer
  • 5 Post By Allen Evans
  • 6 Post By egillette
  • 1 Post By neevel
  • 1 Post By edew
  • 1 Post By eac

Thread: The attack-ok what constitutes a right of way attack

  1. #1
    Just Joined
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1

    The attack-ok what constitutes a right of way attack

    I'm getting conflicting interpretations from refs.
    arm moving forward-
    continuous movement forward regardless of arm position-
    movement forward even if arm is removed and replaced
    So what is the decision?

  2. #2
    Senior Member haroldbuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    345
    Quote Originally Posted by greggall View Post
    I'm getting conflicting interpretations from refs.
    arm moving forward-
    continuous movement forward regardless of arm position-
    movement forward even if arm is removed and replaced
    So what is the decision?
    Welcome aboard!

    FWIW, I can't find right-of-way anywhere in the rule book.
    -Harold Buck

  3. #3
    Senior Member erooMynohtnA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    5,545
    I am getting conflicting interpretations from the question.
    >:U

  4. #4
    Senior Member Beloit Fencer of Old's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The Maine Riviera
    Posts
    1,988
    You must be really new. Here's your answer:

    Epee: The epeeist who arrives simultaneously at the intersection, and who is to your right, has right of way...you must yield.
    Foil: Right of way convention varies by division and region, so that you must analyze the combination of footwork, arm movement, referree, participating foilist's reputation and the conviction with which he/she yells and fist-pumps after the halt vis a vis the geographic location of the event in order to determine the touch. Sometimes the lights come into play, too.
    Sabre: Who the f*ck cares.
    Zelda, D'Art and SubSevn like this.
    VERMONT OUT OF U.S..
    http://www.fencing.net/forums/chat/flashchat.php
    Why do I have a mask-shaped dent in my chest?
    This Space For Rent

  5. #5
    Senior Member ladyofshalott99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    the crucible, the fire, the horizon
    Posts
    717
    Blog Entries
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloit Fencer of Old View Post
    You must be really new. Here's your answer:

    Epee: The epeeist who arrives simultaneously at the intersection, and who is to your right, has right of way...you must yield.
    Foil: Right of way convention varies by division and region, so that you must analyze the combination of footwork, arm movement, referree, participating foilist's reputation and the conviction with which he/she yells and fist-pumps after the halt vis a vis the geographic location of the event in order to determine the touch. Sometimes the lights come into play, too.
    Sabre: Who the f*ck cares.
    Epee: Irrelevant, because it itself is irrelevant

    Sabre/Foil: Whomever starts the attack first, regardless of FORWARD arm movement. Note that I'm not talking about SPEED. I could step towards you at a snail's pace, but if I *started* my attack first, by initiating the extension FIRST, and maintain the lock on that ROW by not doing anything silly like pull my arm back, stop moving for half a second, etc., then I still have RoW regardless of how quick I am moving toward you.

    One difference between Sabre/Foil: In Sabre, your attack is OVER once the front foot lands (as in a lunge). So if your foot lands before your arm/hand is finished, too bad, so sad.

    {Puts that out there, ducks behind rock as this will surely re-open the debate as to whether that is a valid ending in foil}
    A wise man rules his passions, a fool obeys them.
    —Publius Syrus

  6. #6
    Posting Hound Purple Fencer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Panorama City, ca USA
    Posts
    13,869
    Quote Originally Posted by greggall View Post
    I'm getting conflicting interpretations from refs.
    arm moving forward-
    continuous movement forward regardless of arm position-
    movement forward even if arm is removed and replaced
    So what is the decision?
    Careful...that way lies madness...
    Need fencing equipment? See me at H.O.M. Fencing Supply

    Going to your first tournament? Read "Choose yer weapon, Laddie (or: Dude, where's my foil?)"

  7. #7
    Senior Member KidLazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    In a pit
    Posts
    5,080
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by greggall View Post
    I'm getting conflicting interpretations from refs.
    arm moving forward-
    continuous movement forward regardless of arm position-
    movement forward even if arm is removed and replaced
    So what is the decision?
    Point, think of point.

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyofshalott99 View Post
    Epee: Irrelevant, because it itself is irrelevant
    Sabre/Foil: Whomever starts the attack first, regardless of FORWARD arm movement. Note that I'm not talking about SPEED. I could step towards you at a snail's pace, but if I *started* my attack first, by initiating the extension FIRST, and maintain the lock on that ROW by not doing anything silly like pull my arm back, stop moving for half a second, etc., then I still have RoW regardless of how quick I am moving toward you.

    One difference between Sabre/Foil: In Sabre, your attack is OVER once the front foot lands (as in a lunge). So if your foot lands before your arm/hand is finished, too bad, so sad.

    {Puts that out there, ducks behind rock as this will surely re-open the debate as to whether that is a valid ending in foil}
    Myth, "right-of-way is irrelevant in Epee" is a myth.

    Are you sure... about that in foil?

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    I have no home
    Posts
    3,987
    Quote Originally Posted by greggall View Post
    I'm getting conflicting interpretations from refs.
    arm moving forward-
    continuous movement forward regardless of arm position-
    movement forward even if arm is removed and replaced
    So what is the decision?
    Attacks are like pornography, you know it when you see it and it might make you a little tingly inside. Also you should spend less time looking at it because it might make you go blind and will probably lead to malware being installed in your hard drive.
    Peach, Inquartata, jeff and 5 others like this.
    I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
    "Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West

  9. #9
    Posting Hound Purple Fencer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Panorama City, ca USA
    Posts
    13,869
    Quote Originally Posted by KidLazy View Post

    Myth, "right-of-way is irrelevant in Epee" is a myth.
    Why? There IS no RoW in epee...unless you're thinking of taking a parry to block an attack...doesn't take RoW, but it removes the threat for a brief moment.
    Are you sure... about that in foil?
    t.75.....applied to foil? Specifically, post #35. Not really definitive (not in the rulebook like it IS for sabre), but there's guidance from Bill Oliver.
    haroldbuck likes this.
    Need fencing equipment? See me at H.O.M. Fencing Supply

    Going to your first tournament? Read "Choose yer weapon, Laddie (or: Dude, where's my foil?)"

  10. #10
    Posting Hound Purple Fencer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Panorama City, ca USA
    Posts
    13,869
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdawg2121 View Post
    Attacks are like pornography, you know it when you see it and it might make you a little tingly inside. Also you should spend less time looking at it because it might make you go blind and will probably lead to malware being installed in your hard drive.
    Annnnddd cue the porn music *bow chika-chika wow wow....*
    Need fencing equipment? See me at H.O.M. Fencing Supply

    Going to your first tournament? Read "Choose yer weapon, Laddie (or: Dude, where's my foil?)"

  11. #11
    Senior Member ladyofshalott99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    the crucible, the fire, the horizon
    Posts
    717
    Blog Entries
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by KidLazy View Post
    Point, think of point.

    Myth, "right-of-way is irrelevant in Epee" is a myth.

    Are you sure... about that in foil?
    Of course not. Surety is akin to over-confidence, which is a critical flaw I exploit as much as possible.
    A wise man rules his passions, a fool obeys them.
    —Publius Syrus

  12. #12
    Senior Member Allen Evans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,670
    Blog Entries
    114
    Of course there is priority in epee....it's just that the opponent enforces it, rather than the referee.
    Craig, SJCFU#2, VorpalCat and 2 others like this.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    College Park, MD
    Posts
    31
    To the OP,

    If you really are confused (and it is a bit confusing, especially as a beginner), try reading the last portion of referee handbook, which can be found on the FOC website (http://fencingofficials.org/index.php). That may help you find the portions of the rule book to focus on, and give you some perspective on the various things the referee may be looking for while determining what is and is not an attack. Start on pg. 35, with Right of Way in a Nutshell, and then read Bill Oliver's specific examples. Good Luck

  14. #14
    Armorer
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    2,546
    It's important to understand that ROW is determined not just by what you're doing, but also by what your opponent is doing and (this is critical) the relative timing between them. A very slight change in relative timing can lead to a different ROW result in the action.
    Allex likes this.
    "I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by."
    -Douglas Adams

  15. #15
    Senior Member foibles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Central Coastal California
    Posts
    986
    Blog Entries
    3
    It's very helpful to watch the same porn as the highest ranked refs in your area so you may disposition RoW in the same way.

  16. #16
    Senior Member edew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    CA area
    Posts
    9,461
    Quote Originally Posted by greggall View Post
    I'm getting conflicting interpretations from refs.
    arm moving forward-
    continuous movement forward regardless of arm position-
    movement forward even if arm is removed and replaced
    So what is the decision?
    What's the other guy doing?
    the ancient one likes this.
    =)=///

  17. #17
    Senior Member touchefriend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Chiang Mai, Thailand
    Posts
    237
    You are not the first person to notice conflicting interpretations, vague interpretations and interpretations that do not appear to follow the rulebook. Never fear, it will become as clear as mud after you get some more experience.

  18. #18
    eac
    eac is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    1,375
    The referees at world cups call it a certain way each year, more or less, which is pretty much the same as it was last year but might be a bit different than two years ago.

    The referees at national tournaments try (with varying degrees of effort and success) to call it the same way as they heard (or occasionally saw) it called most recently at world cups.

    The referees at regional tournaments try (with varying degrees of effort and success) to call it the same way as they heard (or occasionally saw) it called most recently at national tournaments.

    The referees at local tournaments try (with varying degrees of effort and success) to call it the same way as they heard (or occasionally saw) it called most recently at regional tournaments.

    The resulting telephone effect, combined with the fact that apparently nobody watches FIEvideo, means that local tournament referees, which are likely the ones you're worrying about, may have very strange ideas about how to call it, and those ideas may vary widely from ref to ref even in the same locale. But, be aware that FIEvideo is the ultimate source of truth.
    the ancient one likes this.

  19. #19
    Needs to get Outside Inquartata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Somewhere in your nightmares!
    Posts
    38,438
    Quote Originally Posted by eac View Post
    The referees at local tournaments try (with varying degrees of effort and success) to call it the same way as they heard (or occasionally saw) it called most recently at regional tournaments.
    Or, they call it as it was called in the halcyon days of their youths, lo these many decades ago, and don't try to tell them otherwise!

    But, be aware that FIEvideo is the ultimate source of truth.
    Unless it comes from Christian Bauer and friends, in which case it will soon be disavowed...
    Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!

  20. #20
    Senior Member edew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    CA area
    Posts
    9,461
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdawg2121 View Post
    Attacks are like pornography, you know it when you see it and it might make you a little tingly inside. Also you should spend less time looking at it because it might make you go blind and will probably lead to malware being installed in your hard drive.
    And like advices on here, mostly free at 240dpi.
    =)=///

Similar Threads

  1. How do you set up a leg/toe attack?
    By crquack in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-20-2011, 04:19 AM
  2. Attack in Prep vs Counter Attack in Foil
    By Neinteen in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 103
    Last Post: 12-20-2009, 01:52 AM
  3. Dip and Dig attack
    By mmanning41 in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-27-2009, 09:43 AM
  4. Attack-Counter Attack. Who can riposte?
    By fencerbill in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 08-26-2005, 05:40 PM
  5. Attack?
    By Lee Yue Yang in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-26-2004, 07:27 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26