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Thread: CIP - MF Senior A individual and team, January 27-29, 2012

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    CIP - MF Senior A individual and team, January 27-29, 2012

    This weekend the final run towards Olympic qualification will start. Men's Foil (individual and team) starts off with the Challenge Internationale de Paris (CIP). The link to this event which promises "live" coverage is here.





    The FFE web site has an interview with Stéphane Marcelin, MF French National Coach which may be of interest.


    Stéphane Marcelin - "France Team Foil found again its spirit"

    link


    Three days before the start of 2012 CIP we talked with Stéphane Marcelin, men's foil national coach.

    DG: Can you remind us of the context and challenges of the 2012 CIP?
    SM: It is the first of eight international events of the 2012 season and it takes place in France.

    DG: You go to competitions in many countries. Is the CIP still the best major foil competition in the world?
    SM: This event has a history (the Martini Challenge and Fabergé), it was won by the best foil fencers of past generations. It takes place in Paris with an organization which could inspire many foreign organizers and attracts a large audience of connaisseurs which we cannot see in any other country.

    DG: What are the objectives of the French foil fencers competing at the 2012 CIP?
    SM: They have been preparing seriously for this rendez-vous. They must have confidence in their ability to deliver the best of themselves, show the "winning" spirit, fight for each bout to advance as far as possible.

    DG: Between Erwann Le Pechoux, winner of the 2011 edition and Maxime Pauty, a promising junior, there's a huge difference, don't you think?[*]
    SM: When he was a junior, Erwann also participated in the CIP. Today they certainly don't have the same goals. If Erwann is the leader of French foil in 2012, I wish Maxime to be the future leader of France's team foil.

    DG: What is the interest/reason to allow young fencers like Maxime Pauty to compete [in an event like the CIP]?
    SM: To build the foil national team of tomorrow we must allow young people to gain such experience in the top elite category. And for his goal in the junior season Maxime will gain confidence for the upcoming competitions in his age category [junior].

    DG: For the time being, Men's Foil is the only weapon qualified for the Olympics in London. What's your first reaction to this?
    SM: Right now we are not yet qualified ... I would say that we have a better chance.

    DG: What will you add and what do you need to keep and fine-tune for this qualification?
    SM: We don't even mention the qualification. Our goal is to prepare for the upcoming competitions to be able to fight fiercely against the top teams and trust in our foil team to be proud to win these events which will take place around the world. I leave the analysts and hidden detractors to their shameful and unfounded ramblings. France's team foil found again a spirit and that spirit is to fight to WIN!

    DG: Wouldn't a qualification for London pass through a victory in the team event this coming Sunday?
    SM: The goal of this weekend, either individually or in teams, is to get the best results. The definition of high performance sport is to prepare for and enter competitions to win... not to qualify!

    DG: The team lined up for Sunday is that which got silver at Worlds in Catania (Sintes, Le Pechoux, Marcilloux, Guyart). Is this the best team of the moment?
    SM: They demonstrated at the European and World Championships that their team spirit, their togetherness, their fighting spirit, their mutual trust can be an asset for the performance. They earned these medals. Up to them to prove that they can repeat these performances.

    DG: What is the ideal team for you to go to the London Olympics?
    SM: That which can bring back the gold...

    DG: How would you "promote" the 2012 CIP to encourage our readers to come support the French this weekend?
    SM: To come and support four guys and to share with them the day of victory, and that they will not forget these joyous moments of the most beautiful foil competition of the world...

    Interview by Denis Goran

    [*] In France, it is almost unheard of for any fencer to compete in a higher age category. When it happens the French establishment and the rest raise their eyebrows... Why him and not me or another one? etc. etc....

    rudd and Allex like this.
    It is well to know something of the manners of various peoples, in order more sanely to judge our own, and that we do not think that everything against our modes is ridiculous, and against reason, as those who have seen nothing are accustomed to think.
    René Descartes (1596-1650)

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    eac
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    For the pathologically obsessive, a really really low-quality stream of the pool on the red strip is here: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xny...ort#rel-page-1

    Let's hope the top 64 stream is better.

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    Senior Member edew's Avatar
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    It's cool that I can sit here in SF, flick on my computer and browser and watch a live fencing event half way across the world. Can't beat that.
    =)=///

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    eac
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    Yeah you could. It could have sound. Also, if I had a nickel for every pixel in that stream, I'd have a nickel.

    Also, the yellow strip is now live, now that the pool on the yellow strip is done, so we have a live stream of the ass end of whatever's happening on the podium strip, which is probably just practice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edew View Post
    flick on my computer
    Be careful. if you flick it too often it might break.
    Beauty is not the goal of competitive sports, but high-level sports are a prime venue for the expression of human beauty. The relation is roughly that of courage to war.

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    eac
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    They streamed all four strips for the preliminary DE's, and the one bout I really wanted to watch so far was about two frames an hour, unlike the rest of the streams, and the rest of the bouts are not on the streamed strips.

    FML.

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    eac
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    Of the top 7 seeds, 5 lose in the 64, another squeaks by 15-14, and the other 15-13.

    ...

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    Watching Race and Alex now. Amazing if both get to top 4. Anyone know why there is no wireless?

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    eac
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    They do! I think this qualifies as epic. Has any American ever made top 4 at CIP before?
    fdad likes this.

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    I have no idea, but will Race now have the highest FIE ranking by a USA MF fencer?

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    eac
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    No; Miles was 2nd for most of May 2011. Note, however, that most rankings of USA fencers are inflated by the free points from zonals.

    http://www.nahouw.net/rnk_rfn/8524/C...SON_Miles.html
    Last edited by eac; 01-28-2012 at 10:39 AM.

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    http://escrime-cip.fr/en/

    3 IMBODEN Race USA
    3 MASSIALAS Alexander USA
    20 DUDEY Michael USA
    21 GETZ Kurt USA
    24 CHAMLEY-WATSON Miles USA
    43 CHANG Jerry USA
    61 MEINHARDT Gerek USA
    66 WILLETTE David USA
    85 ELKASSAS Adam USA
    127 WOO Michael USA
    156 PARKINS Benjamin USA
    166 CALDWELL Turner USA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soberin View Post
    I have no idea, but will Race now have the highest FIE ranking by a USA MF fencer?
    Race was the highest FIE ranked American before this:

    Rank Pts Name Nationality Date of birth Season
    11 104 IMBODEN Race USA 17.04.93 2011/2012
    16 89 MASSIALAS Alexander USA 20.04.94 2011/2012
    30 60 MEINHARDT Gerek USA 27.07.90 2011/2012
    31 59 CHAMLEY-WATSON Miles USA 03.12.89 2011/2012
    75 17 WILLETTE David USA 31.07.91 2011/2012
    121 9 GOLDSTEIN Jeremy USA 30.05.92 2011/2012
    134 7 GETZ Kurt USA 07.06.88 2011/2012
    153 6 CHANG Jerry USA 04.11.94 2011/2012

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    Senior Member Mr Epee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eac View Post
    No; Miles was 2nd for most of May 2011. Note, however, that most rankings of USA fencers are inflated by the free points from zonals.
    Hush, now.

    We don't want the other zones hear and start hosting zonal championship events of their own.

    Oh, wait... you don't say?
    Take your time. Read carefully.

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    Senior Member edew's Avatar
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    Wow, two US fencers in the top-4. That is a definite first. Closest french fencer is Sintes in 9th. One italian... wow. Just wow.
    =)=///

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    Gav
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    While I think that 2 US fencers in the L4 is very nice...

    There's fare more interesting results:

    Only 1 ITA in L8 (!) and that's Cassara who won. Only 1 FRA in the L16 and that was Sintes.

    I have to say that this is the most interesting set of results:

    33 AVOLA Giorgio ITA
    34 ASPROMONTE Valerio ITA
    35 BALDINI Andrea ITA

    Eh?

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    US recently (Dec. and Jan.) had two domestic senior events. I wonder whether the other fencers are in form at this point in the season. I suspect that come August, the Italians will be peaking.
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    Bravo!

    The two bronze medals by the very young American foilists, Alexander Massialas and Race Imboden, are a great and well deserved accomplishment. Congratulations and bravo indeed!


    Here some excerpts from the French and Italian web sites. The French are not happy and the Italians, though with the gold probably expected more.


    1. Comments by Loïc Attelly, two times (2001, 2006) foil world champion (team) and silver at 2001 individual world championship, about the performace by French foilists in 2012 CIP (individual) link




    Loïc Attelly, "You've got to have the killer instinct!"



    "The result in general is disappointing after the number of French foilists (11) in the tableau of 64.

    Many bouts ended up rather close, often the result of a lack of confidence in key moments.

    For example, Benoit Journet against the Korean Choi (12-15). The bout was decided at the very end when Benoit had the bout in his hands. Or yet Antonin Buquet, defeated by the American Massialas, a fencer 3 years younger than him who had more experience on the strip.

    Other times the bouts shifted because of bad strategic choices. Terence Joubert explained how he wanted to put pressure on Cassarà at the beginning of the third period when he lead by two points. Maybe because he rushed his offensive action was countered and he was behind 3 points. If he had touched the point would have been his and would have put pressure on Cassarà and impose a different prospective of the game to the Italian who we know sometimes falls apart at the end of a bout.

    As for Victor Sintès, his finish in top 16 against Yuki Ota is not indicative of his strong showing from the beginning of the day. He was spared nothing between two lethargic fencers (Biro and Majewski) and an overcharged electric battery (Ota)! Victor managed perfectly the conclusions of his bouts against the Hungarian and the Polish fencers by using the killer instinct which is sorely missing in many French."



    2. Comment on Escrime-info

    As usual lots of criticism and second-guessing as to why some fencers were there and not others. As the host country France could sign in 20 fencers in total which they did but the choice of who was competing was made by the selection committee. Same applies on who is part of the team and will compete in the very important team event on Sunday which will be used for the London qualification in MF.

    In Post #17, here the poster lists the composition of the team for previous editions since 2005 (almost the same people) and YOB comparison between the French and Italian team.


    • France: Le Pechoux (1982), Sintes (1980), Marcilloux (1980), Guyart (1981)

    • Italy: Cassarà (1984), Aspromonte(1987), Avola (1989), Baldini (1985)


    And further down, after the individual competition is over here, Post #42

    No French in the quarter finals but USA have Imboden (1993) and Massialas (1994). You find the mistake!!!


    3. The Italian side



    Andrea Cassarà, winner of 2012 individual CIP

    Excerpts from here

    Andrea Cassarà continues his winning streak since Catania. "I really wanted this victory. Paris is one of the most prestigious events of the World Cup circuit. I never won here. With this victory I am at 20 victories in World Cup and I aim to match the record of Toti Sanzo who won one more!"

    "Once again I felt how the World Championship gave me confidence and awareness. In the bout against the Korean Choi I was down 7-0. I told myself, 'you are the strongest!' and I was able to get out of that situation and win the bout. I'm really happy. Now we must think about the team event tomorrow."

    Italy had placed in the tableau of 64, 8 of the 12 foilists entered. This caused some "fraternal" bouts with elimination of the losers. Cassarà prevented Minuto to get in top 8. Baldini was stopped in top 64 by Luperi (who was then stopped by Imboden to make to 8).



    After the end of the final bout, the French web site reports that Cassarà after saluting his opponent, the referee and the public, pointed with the tip of his foil the place to the right of the poster of Erwann Le Pecheux the winner of last year's CIP edition where his poster will appear next year.

    After Baldini (2008), Sanzo (2004, 2000), Borella (1978, 1990), and Cerioni (1983), Andrea Cassara is the fifth Italian to win in the CIP history.

    The team event Sunday will have Italy represented by Andrea Cassarà, Andrea Baldini, Giorgio Avola, and Valerio Aspromonte.
    the ancient one and Allex like this.
    It is well to know something of the manners of various peoples, in order more sanely to judge our own, and that we do not think that everything against our modes is ridiculous, and against reason, as those who have seen nothing are accustomed to think.
    René Descartes (1596-1650)

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    eac
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Epee View Post
    We don't want the other zones hear and start hosting zonal championship events of their own.
    Of the countries that consistently have top-25 senior MF people, there is 1 in the American zone, 0.5 in the African zone (Egypt), 3 in the Asian zone, and 7 from the European zone.

    People from the weak zones have an easier time getting zonal points. It's pretty straightforward.

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    Senior Member Mr Epee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eac View Post
    Of the countries that consistently have top-25 senior MF people, there is 1 in the American zone, 0.5 in the African zone (Egypt), 3 in the Asian zone, and 7 from the European zone.

    People from the weak zones have an easier time getting zonal points. It's pretty straightforward.
    Did you just classify Africans as being only 0.5 of a MF People? I thought we agreed on 3/5ths. Not cool, man.

    The vast vast vast number of FIE points awarded are handed out in competitions hosted in Europe.

    Do you think that influences the order of fencers on the ranking list?

    Last question: Why do you hate America?

    It's pretty straight forward.
    Take your time. Read carefully.

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