CIP - MF Senior A individual and team, January 27-29, 2012

[Allex]

Allex,

1. You're still not linking what I've written with what you're writing. If you would like to discuss federation financing and competition hosting arrangements around the world, that's fine I suppose. At this point, I'm reading it as a non sequitur.

2. The IIHF World Championships ARE an evil Eurocentric scheme. Everyone who is anyone knows that, so not the best example to have used. It's a complete Mickey Mouse show held in the middle of the NHL playoffs. It might be best to use examples from things you know about. That way you don't introduce more subtle things to the equation than you intended.

3. You can't separate 'the best' from the methodology/mechanism used to determine 'the best'. Similarly you cannot separate 'the champion' from the road he traveled.

Still not sure what you want here.

I almost give up - please correct me if I am incorrect.
Your statement - WC's are in Europe as a part of the "Eurocentric Evil Scheme"
Moi - Wc's are in Europe - since there very few venues willing to host them

[Mr Epee]

I almost give up - please correct me if I am incorrect.
Your statement - WC's are in Europe as a part of the "Eurocentric Evil Scheme"
Moi - Wc's are in Europe - since there very few venues willing to host them

You are quite incorrect.

Notice:

Claim 1: Americans athletes are overrated because of 'easy points' from zonal championships.

Claim 2: Europeans athletes are overrated because of 'easy points' from inherent scheduling advantages.

Excusing the loaded language of terms like overrated and 'easy points', both of these claims can be perfectly valid. You simply need to look at what the 'level of competition' and participation numbers at various zonal championships, and you can make a judgement call about whether trans-Atlantic flights (and everything that goes along with them) improve athlete performance.

My thought is that, for the purpose of this conversation, it is unhelpful to point out one aspect of advantage while ignoring the other. I suspect that the prevailing sentiment is that points earned by American athletes at zonal championships are gravy.

You entered the conversation screaming like a maniac about logistics. Everyone has their passions, I suppose.

[Allex]

You are quite incorrect.

Notice:

Claim 1: Americans athletes are overrated because of 'easy points' from zonal championships.

Claim 2: Europeans athletes are overrated because of 'easy points' from inherent scheduling advantages.

Excusing the loaded language of terms like overrated and 'easy points', both of these claims can be perfectly valid. You simply need to look at what the 'level of competition' and participation numbers at various zonal championships, and you can make a judgement call about whether trans-Atlantic flights (and everything that goes along with them) improve athlete performance.

My thought is that, for the purpose of this conversation, it is unhelpful to point out one aspect of advantage while ignoring the other. I suspect that the prevailing sentiment is that points earned by American athletes at zonal championships are gravy.

You entered the conversation screaming like a maniac about logistics. Everyone has their passions, I suppose.

1.
Sorry - when I read :
Yes, a gift. It's kinda like a gift a man gives his wife during a dinner at which he explains that he's been having an affair with his secretary... and that he intends to continue having an affair with his secretary.
it meant to me that Euro advantage is much more tilted in your view, and is a part of some sinister conspiracy to screw non-Euro fencers outta WC points

2.
as well as the post that if WC's would be spread around the World the rankings would change significantly

there is just no truth to such; as European fencers continue to win on other continents.

3.
To me a Weaker Zone advantage was put in place in order to bring non-traditional powers into some limelight; while the Euro advantage is not in place by design, but due to a necessity; while the Wife/Mistress statement implies that it is a part of some "master plan".

4.
Frankly - I'm dropping the subject as we're much closer to a consensus than a few days ago - and it has to be a bore for everyone.
Thank you for a reasonable response.

[Mr Epee]

1.
Sorry - when I read :
Yes, a gift. It's kinda like a gift a man gives his wife during a dinner at which he explains that he's been having an affair with his secretary... and that he intends to continue having an affair with his secretary.
it meant to me that Euro advantage is much more tilted in your view, and is a part of some sinister conspiracy to screw non-Euro fencers outta WC points

Really? I thought people had affairs because they are horny and lacked self-control. You really think that a guy banging his secretary has to be an evil genius mastermind? Don't be silly.

2.
as well as the post that if WC's would be spread around the World the rankings would change significantly

Move the vast majority of FIE point events to North America or Asia for a few years or decades, and I'm certain that both the ranking list and the levels of perceived skill for individual athletes and the fencing prowess of particular nations would appear substantially different.

there is just no truth to such; as European fencers continue to win on other continents.

a) Your paraphrase does not capture the original. Not even close. Read better.
b) Believe it or not, the ranking list is pretty long and most of the people on it are not winning World Cups.

3.
To me a Weaker Zone advantage was put in place in order to bring non-traditional powers into some limelight; while the Euro advantage is not in place by design, but due to a necessity; while the Wife/Mistress statement implies that it is a part of some "master plan".

Still not particularly relevant, but the sun is glinting nicely off your shiny shiny hat.

4.
Frankly - I'm dropping the subject as we're much closer to a consensus than a few days ago - and it has to be a bore for everyone.
Thank you for a reasonable response.

Not sure how we can be 'much closer to a consensus', when I've been saying precisely the same thing from the start. I can't imagine what profit you find in kicking the dirt.

[Grasshopper]

Why don't you guys set up a WC in the US yourselves? You can ask that secretary that everyone is banging to help.

[Allex]

Mr. E. if you ever around L.A. I'll be happy to buy you a "shot of tea" and it's proper accutrimon for a further discussion, meanwhile



Grasshopper same goes for you just for the aforementioned post.
On the record - happily married for 20 years, at least I have been told that by my better half.