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Thread: mini foil

  1. #1
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    mini foil

    Today at the club I had the idea to put a ball that would simulate the weight of a foil blade on a grip so that I could have a small, robust, and non-sword resembling training tool. I have all necessary tools at home or at my clubs armory.
    I intend to cut the tang off a broken blade and mount a weighted object on top of it. This would be mounted on a grip and guard bell. The final piece would look like a metal ball (if i can find one with the right weight) in place of a blade on a foil.
    some questions about the feasability of such a tool:
    would a blow torch fasten a weight (most likely metal) to the tang of a blade?
    I dont know much about physics or engineering, but would a center of gravity affect the likeness to the weight of a foil?
    The center of gravity on a foil is about an inch or two from the guard, depending on a blade. To create a similar feel, would I have to determine the center of gravity on my current blade and find a weight that would balance the piece out at the same spot if it were placed on the end of a short section of blade?
    If I wanted to simulate using a heavier blade than my primary blade, allowing for resistance training, would I have to proportionally increase the length of the blade and the weight of the object? How do I find this proportion?
    To clarify, such a piece would have a slightly lighter weight, in consideration to a short section of blade upon which it is mounted, rather than a weight directly onto the bell.
    Please point out any flaws in this design or any ideas of yours as to how to improve it.
    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Posting Hound Array Purple Fencer's Avatar
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    What training are you planning on doing with this, would be one fairly important question...what are you going for?
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  3. #3
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    Simple footwork and motions... advances/retreats and lunges would be easy.
    Are you trying to point to the possibility of an innacurate representation of a foil in actions such as the parry or disengage?
    If not, I would practice these and others as well.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array Mergs's Avatar
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    A simple way to do it would be to take an old broken blade, some heavy washers, a grip, pommel nut and guard and some epoxy. cut the blade to about 3" from the shoulder (leave the tang alone!). Weigh the weapon you are now using, except for the washers. weigh the pieces parts you have collected. subtract the weight of the weapon you are now using from the weight of the pieces parts. This will give you how much weight you need for the washers to be. weigh a washer. divide the weight you need by the weight of the washer and that will give you the number of washers you need. Stack the washers together and tape them together. Assemble the grip and guard to the broken blade. Place the stack of washers over the end of the blade. Now you should have rough estimate of what you are looking for. You can dry fit the pieces together and play with the balance using some modeling clay to find the right balance point, and trimming off parts of the washer stack (you can also add or subtract smaller washers, as long as the fit over the blade). once you find the combination, cut some grooves in to the blade and epoxy the washer stack onto the blade.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Beloit Fencer of Old's Avatar
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    Another way you could simulate a foil for training is to use a foil.

    OK...snarky comment aside, this is where I suffer for not having paid enough attention in physics. I'm vaguely aware that a pendulum will take longer to complete a circuit (back and forth) the longer it is, and I'm aware that a shorter foil will feel lighter and faster (to move the point side to side, up and down, vs forward, back) even if the overall weight of the foil is the same as a longer foil. Regardless of the training bauble's weight and center of gravity, I would expect it to feel differently in one's hand than an actual "5" foil. Physics people & engineers...am I wrong?
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Array Mergs's Avatar
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    Well, no, you're not wrong, and it all relates to the moment of inertia more than a pendulum like effect. I think the difference would be negliable. Shoot, I used to carry an orthopedic with me grip and practice parries when we doing our 5 mile runs when I first started fencing. I was looking more for muscle memory of the action rather than the weight.
    Remember those who put their lives in danger for your sake.

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