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Thread: Jr WS/MS/MF/ME WC - Lignano, Italy Jan. 6-8, 2012

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    Jr WS/MS/MF/ME WC - Lignano, Italy Jan. 6-8, 2012

    Information website and Live results:
    http://www.federscherma.it/risultati.asp

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    I honestly don't get the point of these Junior World Cup threads. If we understand how to use f.net, doesn't that mean we also know how to find the FIE website, the host federation website, and the Fencing Worldwide website without being spoonfed?

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    To have it in one place? To have easier access to links which may be in foreign languages?
    I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
    "Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West

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    I don't mind being spoonfed. Thanks!

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    Or, those of us who only drive by occasionally will see a thread title like this and say: "Oh, an XX World Cup was this weekend? I wonder how the US kids did?" and appreciate the quick navigational aid.

    But go ahead and carp about it if it makes you feel better.
    "Sometimes we, as coaches, get into that dictator mode where you just tell and you don't listen and you don't try to understand them." Tom Izzo, Mich. St.
    "Fraud is the creation of trust. And then: its betrayal."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo View Post
    Or, those of us who only drive by occasionally will see a thread title like this and say: "Oh, an XX World Cup was this weekend? I wonder how the US kids did?" and appreciate the quick navigational aid.

    But go ahead and carp about it if it makes you feel better.
    Carp I will. There have been hundreds of views of the Junior World Cup threads for this weekend, and basically no replies about the results, so I don't see much interest shown here. Secondly, it's much easier to look at the FIE or FIS website directly. In other words, since the Junior World Cups generate no substantial discussion, why bother to post a link here to sites that anyone with any real interest in the results already has bookmarked?

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    Hundreds of views seems like a useful metric of its own.
    Craig and formerfencer like this.

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    Senior Member Peach's Avatar
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    I don't have to comment in a thread to be interested in it. You may find this fascinating considering how many posts I've made, but I actually post fairly rarely, at least in proportion to how much I read.

    One of the main reasons I read f.net is so I can keep up with things like this without having to keep track of the international schedule, and without having to track down the various websites with results. I'm not a fencing parent any more, and I don't compete in that many international events, but I do like knowing how my young friends (and the children of my older friends) are doing in junior and cadet events.

    I'm with hello? here. It is very handy to be spoonfed. And having a central place to browse the latest news strikes me as one of the more compelling arguments for the existence of this forum.
    “The whole of life is just like watching a film. Only it's as though you always get in ten minutes after the big picture has started, and no-one will tell you the plot, so you have to work it out all yourself from the clues.”
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    ditto

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peach View Post
    I don't have to comment in a thread to be interested in it. You may find this fascinating considering how many posts I've made, but I actually post fairly rarely, at least in proportion to how much I read.

    One of the main reasons I read f.net is so I can keep up with things like this without having to keep track of the international schedule, and without having to track down the various websites with results. I'm not a fencing parent any more, and I don't compete in that many international events, but I do like knowing how my young friends (and the children of my older friends) are doing in junior and cadet events.

    I'm with hello? here. It is very handy to be spoonfed. And having a central place to browse the latest news strikes me as one of the more compelling arguments for the existence of this forum.
    What is your method for following international events if someone does not start a thread here?

    Do you prefer reading threads here about Junior World Cups, or if your interest is casual, are you content to read the USFA website, which is covering the Junior and Cadet international events very well recently?

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    I was very happy to use this link, especially given Max VanHaaster's awesome top-8 finish in JMF!!!
    Félicitations Max!!
    Grammar: it's the difference between knowing your sh*t, and knowing you're sh*t!

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    Needs to get Outside Inquartata's Avatar
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    Well, folks, we must all be wrong, I guess.
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    Senior Member Peach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillow View Post
    What is your method for following international events if someone does not start a thread here?

    Do you prefer reading threads here about Junior World Cups, or if your interest is casual, are you content to read the USFA website, which is covering the Junior and Cadet international events very well recently?
    I cheerfully count on someone posting a thread here. And it's a nice community in that way; someone generally does.

    I do check USAFencing from time to time, but it's not on my web-browsing daily circuit--the office is good at posting results on Facebook, too, and I do check that, clicking through to the website if I want more details.
    “The whole of life is just like watching a film. Only it's as though you always get in ten minutes after the big picture has started, and no-one will tell you the plot, so you have to work it out all yourself from the clues.”
    Terry Pratchett, Moving Pictures

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    Quote Originally Posted by pillow View Post
    Carp I will. There have been hundreds of views of the Junior World Cup threads for this weekend, and basically no replies about the results, so I don't see much interest shown here. Secondly, it's much easier to look at the FIE or FIS website directly. In other words, since the Junior World Cups generate no substantial discussion, why bother to post a link here to sites that anyone with any real interest in the results already has bookmarked?
    I look at all the World Cup threads and rarely comment on them. For me, it is MUCH easier to find the links on f.net, which I check regularly, since most of the time I don't even know that there's a World Cup (unless I happen to know someone who is going). Teacup, thanks for the links. Keep them coming.

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    Pillow, you are correct, these links can be found from the FIE and now the EFC websites, however they are not always there or easy to find. (My apologies for the third link for Lignano, but I felt all events should be noted.)

    When I started posting links to Jr WCs and Cadet designated events, I believed that people were unaware that many of these events have live or almost results, especially those which use fencingworldwide.com, the German website. (It is silly how watching a red or green light go off in real time can be exciting.)

    USA Fencing never posted links for information or results before these events and correct me if I am wrong but I still don't think they do. Neither does USA Fencing post links to US domestic events, such as the "Battle in Seattle", NCAA Championships, PdF, etc. which have live or almost live tournament results, so it is great when those links are posted on fencing.net.

    By posting these live or almost live links from countries such as Germany to Serbia, and non USA Fencing national domestic events, I hope it has and may continue to help move USA Fencing to the digital age, not only for posting results after but also during our national events (instead of paper postings). While the recent Facebook postings are great, they are no comparison to fencingworldwide.com or what other countries and clubs are doing.

    I appreciate all of the likes and private thank you messages I have received over the years and am grateful when others post links for events to websites I didn't find or didn't know about. (I myself use the links here as a faster way to access the sites. )
    Last edited by teacup; 01-09-2012 at 04:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by teacup View Post
    Pillow you are correct, these links can be found from the FIE and now the EFC websites, however By posting these live or almost live links from countries such as Germany to Serbia, and non USA Fencing domestic events, I hope it has and may continue to help move USA Fencing to the digital age, not only for posting results after but also during our national events (instead of paper postings). While the recent Facebook postings are great, they are no comparison to fencingworldwide.com or what other countries and clubs are doing)
    Most certainy a good idea. Have you contacted Courtney or Nicole about this? It would certainly be nice if the Cadet designated event or Junior World Cup could have a link to the host federation "real-time" result page noted on the USFA website. I'm sure that the NO would welcome some help in setting this up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pillow View Post
    Most certainy a good idea. Have you contacted Courtney or Nicole about this? It would certainly be nice if the Cadet designated event or Junior World Cup could have a link to the host federation "real-time" result page noted on the USFA website. I'm sure that the NO would welcome some help in setting this up.
    I used to send the previous international staff person links to be posted prior to the events, but as you noted, all of these sites can be found with a little research. The staff in the office works very hard, they may not have the time to research these links, but neither do I have the time to send a link of every international and/or domestic event with extensive results webpages to the national office, which is why I post here. Now others are posting too, the office staff would be inundated with link update emails if everyone with a link were to email them.

    Perhaps a better option would be if fencing.net in conjunction with askfred.net, set up a website or separate section for links to live or almost live international and domestic results. A link to this new results page could then be posted on USA Fencing which would therefore not create additional work for the office staff. (Or just having a link to this forum on their website would help people become aware of where to find these results.)
    Last edited by teacup; 01-09-2012 at 04:29 PM.

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    Thank you teacup!

    Quote Originally Posted by teacup View Post
    USA Fencing never posted links for information or results before these events and correct me if I am wrong but I still don't think they do. Neither does USA Fencing post links to US domestic events, such as the "Battle in Seattle", NCAA Championships, PdF, etc. which have live or almost live tournament results, so it is great when those links are posted on fencing.net.
    Indeed! What teacup has done and continues to do in the information (as in sharing of) department is nothing but admirable and extremely helpful for everybody. The hope remains that the powers in USA Fencing will get the hint that this is a necessary and welcome service by all (well, almost all).

    I am still appalled by the primitive look and practical un-usability of the USA Fencing web site. I recognize that some improvements have been made and welcome them as always but we continue to depend on the efficiency and professionalism of people like teacup to be informed. Regretfully, the people in charge (elected, appointed or hired) of USA Fencing continue to see the "customers" (its members) as a nuisance which are best avoided or ignored (God forbid if any of them dares to make a suggestion or points at some mistakes!) and consider the membership as targets for funding the existence of the organization and exploiting their weakness while keeping them uninformed.

    The main "strength" of USA Fencing is that for those who want to fence competitively but still resent the service or lack thereof offered by the association don't have anywhere else to go. The end result is that an ever larger number will avoid to get involved or remain committed to the sport. However, at least as far as information and information sharing, fortunately there is Fencing.net and its community of contributors (like teacup) who dedicate their own time and resources to inform the rest of us.

    I like to thank teacup for all the work of the past and hope it will continue in the future. And if someone feels that this is redundant remember the old Latin saying, melius abundare quam deficere.





    Quote Originally Posted by teacup View Post
    I used to send the previous international staff person links to be posted prior to the events, but as you noted, all of these sites can be found with a little research. The staff in the office works very hard, they may not have the time to research these links, but neither do I have the time to send a link of every international and/or domestic event with extensive results webpages to the national office, which is why I post here. Now others are posting too, the office staff would be inundated with link update emails.

    Perhaps a better option would be if fencing.net in conjunction with askfred.net, set up a website or separate section for links to live or almost live international and domestic results. A link to this new results page could then be posted on USA Fencing which would therefore not create additional work for the office staff. (Or just have a link to this forum on their website.)
    Here I disagree. There is no excuse on the part of any organization for not being able or capable to fulfill and discharge its duties. Help from outside (volunteers) whether sought or offered is or should be welcome, but is no substitute.

    USA Fencing has put in place so many hoops and challenges for any interested person to overcome before being considered "up to par" to be included in the list of eligible/electable candidates. Yet the fundamental question missing for anyone wishing to toss his/her name in the hat is "are you ready to discharge all your duties operating in this system? If not, don't look for excuses of too much work or too few resources but rather withhold your name even if you have impressive credentials."

    Question:

    Why has teacup not been approached by the people in charge of USA Fencing and asked to collaborate/help? More importantly, why after teacup submitted to the national office the information gathered was there no follow up?

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    It is well to know something of the manners of various peoples, in order more sanely to judge our own, and that we do not think that everything against our modes is ridiculous, and against reason, as those who have seen nothing are accustomed to think.
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    Perhaps not exactly on-point but related to Cadet Designated Events, can someone tell me the difference(s) between the Cadet MF "R" ("Regular?) and the Cadet MF "Tm" (Team?) rolling points lists?

    Why is the "Team" list used for determining ranking setting eligibility for Cadet Designated Events?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty Belgian View Post
    Perhaps not exactly on-point but related to Cadet Designated Events, can someone tell me the difference(s) between the Cadet MF "R" ("Regular?) and the Cadet MF "Tm" (Team?) rolling points lists?

    Why is the "Team" list used for determining ranking setting eligibility for Cadet Designated Events?
    You are right, your question is not on-point.

    The answer to your question should be obvious if you read through the Athlete Handbook, which if not perfect does provide useful information.

    Anyone even remotely interested in international competitions who has not read and understood cover to cover the Handbook would be wise to do so before plunking down even a dime on national and international competitions and travel.

    The quick answer is that there are two sets of points:

    • RPS R = Rolling as in 12 months prior, and
    • TPS T = Team starting from the beginning of the current season



    According to age category and weapons, for the selection/eligibility to designated international events, TPS kick in later in the season and the details of when are clearly spelled in the Handbook.
    It is well to know something of the manners of various peoples, in order more sanely to judge our own, and that we do not think that everything against our modes is ridiculous, and against reason, as those who have seen nothing are accustomed to think.
    René Descartes (1596-1650)

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