Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

PeterGustafsson · 03-09-2003, 01:24 PM

Hi!

The Toni Smith topic has made it to the Swedish Sports pages (and German too, I might add). The papers noted that in the USA, the anthem is played before almost all team games, and is performed by a live musician, as opposed to tape via the PA system.

This is quite different from how it is done in Sweden (and most of Europe, IIAIC). Over here, the anthems are only performed after a game or competition is over, and only the winner´s anthem is performed - the underlying logic being that you should *earn* the right to hear your anthem. (If you come from a country the size of a small US. county, and your team wins an upset so that you can hear the anthem for the first time in literally decades, imagine how proud thay are.) Anthems are only performed when the competition is between competitors from different countries who are official representatives (i.e. national team members) of the countries, the winner of the Sw. Championship in any sport does not get to hear our anthem, the logic being that it would have been won by a Swede no matter what, so it makes no point in playing a song that does not connote the winner any more than any other competitor.

This got me wondering: Is the Star-spangled banner played before, after, or not at all at US. fencing meets? If it is, during which types of meets? Are official University songs played during inter-University team meets?

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

magma · 03-09-2003, 05:02 PM

I have never heard the anthem played before or after a fencing match.

AndrewH · 03-09-2003, 09:16 PM

They did at our HS state championships. First time I've ever seen it done though.

KShan5[PrFC] · 03-09-2003, 09:20 PM

Never heard it at any competition.

JEC · 03-09-2003, 09:30 PM

Yes, in the Nationals early in AM every day.

Sabresque · 03-09-2003, 11:10 PM

same at JO's. But these are our own national championship tournaments, and no international fencers come. I don't think they played it when I was at the Kentucky world cup

afc fencer · 03-09-2003, 11:48 PM

They play it at every national competition at like 7:30.

Swordsman · 03-10-2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AndrewH
They did at our HS state championships. First time I've ever seen it done though.

You've got a high school team?!

oiuyt · 03-10-2003, 03:24 PM

As mentioned above, US national competitions play it at the opening of the day each day. I have been at 1-2 collegiate events where it was played/sung, but it is not common.

Frequently performed live, it is also frequently done taped. Depends on whether the organizers for whatever event know someone who can sing. The USFA does it live invariably in my experience.

Lots of things different w/regards to the national anthem and the flag in the US and europe. How often do private homes/businesses in Sweden display the flag? It wasn't uncommon here even before 9-11, and since it has been VERY common. My understanding (and experience except in times such as last June when I was in England during the World Cup) is that it's rare in Europe except on government buildings.

-B :)

AndrewH · 03-10-2003, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Swordsman
You've got a high school team?!

Yep... that surprises you? Actually it would depend where you are in the US. Here in NJ (northern NJ in particular) a lot of high schools have teams. I hear a lot of Ohio schools have teams too.

Swordsman · 03-11-2003, 08:40 PM

Yes I'm surprised - and quite envious!!

pkt · 04-03-2003, 07:02 PM

Peter, et al,

In Canada, they play the national anthem before a game is played in the pro leagues: football (Candian Football), hockey (if an 'American' team is playing against a Cdn team they play BOTH anthems. I put American in brackets is because the bulk of the NHL players are Cdns. That said, one of the leading scorers, Vancouver Canucks' Naslund is a Swede.), baseball (recently, in the1st preseason game played in Toronto, ON., during the intermission of the 7th inning, they played 'God Bless America', the unofficial 2nd national anthem of the US, to the chagrin of most of the Cdn fans.), car races, ad nauseum.

In HK and in the 70s here in Cda, they used to play 'God Save the Queen' at the end of movies. They stopped doing that here in Cda. And most def. in HK...

----------(---

In HK, 3 or 4 high schools have their own fencing clubs, LaSalle, DBS, etc. These are the more elite - here's that damned word always associated with fencing - Catholic, private schools.

PK

edew · 04-03-2003, 07:32 PM

I think the unofficial 2nd national anthem for the US of A is "America The Beautiful", which I woud prefer as the official anthem in a heartbeat. At least it's singable.

God Bless America is used because there's that "G-O-D" word in it and makes all those pretentious oafs in office feel nearer to god and more smug and smarmy when they sing it. 'Sides, they're all about the size of Kate Smith at her prime, so might as well sing like her if they already look like her.

My personal unofficial second national anthem, and one that must be kept as unofficial, and second, is "This Land Is Your Land" by Woody Guthrie.

It must be unofficial. Otherwise, Woody'd spin in his grave realizing that his popular song has become corporatized and institutionalized.

KBayDog · 04-03-2003, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AndrewH
Yep... that surprises you? Actually it would depend where you are in the US. Here in NJ (northern NJ in particular) a lot of high schools have teams. I hear a lot of Ohio schools have teams too.

Andrew,

Hindsight is 20/20. I grew up in North Jersey (Vernon), and hadn't even HEARD of fencing, save for Iron Maiden songs. My father sent me the 3/27 issue of the Star-Ledger, which featured high school fencing in North Jersey. WOW! If only I had known!

As you know, you are quite lucky to have high school fencing. Take full advantage of it.

I have been back to Jersey maybe twice in the seven years since I left, but if/when I go back to visit my folks, I'll look you up.

Best of luck with all you do!

KBayDog

MHS Fencer · 04-03-2003, 09:49 PM

'This Land is Your Land' is, in my opinion, the song that best represents what this country is supposed to be about. I'm only 18, but there's something about classic folk songs (i.e. Guthrie, Leadbelly, Ramblin' Jack Elliot) that make them the greatest embodiment of the American ideal, and that song in particular.

135711 · 04-04-2003, 01:05 AM

God Bless America sung by Kate Smith is -what can I say, it's just plain great.

This Land is your Land is a wonderful song, I've always liked hearing it. let's see, there's more out there.

America The Beautiful, of course, Oh Beautiful, for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain, for purple mountain magesty, above the fruited plain, America, America, God shed his grace on thee, and crowned thy good with brotherhood, from sea to shining sea!

The Long and Winding Road?

Fly Like an Eagle?

135711 · 04-04-2003, 01:19 AM

"Fly Like An Eagle"

Time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin'
Into the future...

Time keeps on slippin', slippin', slippin'
Into the future.........oohhh

I wanna fly like an eagle... to the sea
Fly like an eagle let my spirit carry me, I wanna...
fly...
Fly right into the future....

I wanna feed the babies... said, who can't get enough to eat
Wanna shoe the children... no shoes on their feet

I wanna house the people... livin' in the street
Oh yeah there's a solution

Let me fly like and eagle... to the sea
Fly like an eagle let that spirit carry me, I wanna
Fly right into the future

Time keeps on slippin', slippin', slippin'
Into the future...
Time flies don't it baby?
Time keeps on slippin', slippin', slippin'
Into the future... ...Ohhh.
Time flies don't it baby?
Keep on flying...
keep on flying, ohhh ...
Oh yeah, yeah
Think I better get up...
Don't it baby?
Hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey...
I wanna fly like an eagle... to the sea
Fly like an eagle let my spirits carry me, I wanna
fly...

[EDITED BY ME, BECAUSE IT WAS SORTA LONG]

Peter, brings up a good point, the use of national symbols, prayers in school and so forth have been slowly eliminated from public places, and I think it's damaged things. Kids can't even pledge allegiance to the flag. I recited the pledge through high school, but some kids protested the word God also. I have no problem with reciting pledges, even though I practice a different faith. It's because I have a faith, that I can see the value of others. When too many people lose their religion, society loses something.

muaddib · 04-04-2003, 02:41 AM

Oiuyt, you wrote
"Lots of things different w/regards to the national anthem and the flag in the US and europe. How often do private homes/businesses in Sweden display the flag? It wasn't uncommon here even before 9-11, and since it has been VERY common. My understanding (and experience except in times such as last June when I was in England during the World Cup) is that it's rare in Europe except on government buildings."

I can't speak for all of europe, but I'm an american living in Denmark and the danes are crazy about their national flag. Every 2nd or 3rd house on my block has a flagpole and flag in the backyard (mine did too, but since I couldn't fly an american flag I took the pole down!). If someone goes on a trip aboard, their friends show up at the airport upon their arrival waving danish flags. If someone has a birthday, flags will be put out front of the house and lining and walkways. At football games (soccer of course) some of them even paint their faces like a flag. I believe the swedes share the same flag-loving-culture as the danes (is that right Peter?).

Muaddib

pkt · 04-04-2003, 06:15 PM

Eric,

Did you kill off Woody Guthrie?
Last I heard he was still singing a month or so ago during a peace march.

To our American friends, - I expect a fire storm for mentioninfg this, esp from Moon et al - why is this American obsession about the flag?

One possible explanation given to me by a FOB [Fresh Off the Boat] English sabreure who's now working on AI [artificial intelligence] at UBC, is the lack of history in the US. 200-odd years is nothing in the eyes of Asians and Europena countries.

Or shall I start a new thread on this subject?

PK

MHS Fencer · 04-04-2003, 10:19 PM

Woody Guthrie is looooooooong dead. That said, Arlo Guthrie is alive and kicking, and still performing.

As for our absurd infatuation with the flag, I think that a lot of people see it as a summation of everythign that we have done and all the things that we stand for - afterall, our pledge of allegiance is to the flag first, and then to the state. It's just a part of American culture to be instilled with a respect and awe for the flag - it's the most visible symbol that we have.