ZIP Tip again

[Purple Fencer]

Yeah, I know a lot of people who have been turned off by the lack of contact springs. My guess is the extra sales would make up for the extra cost even without an increase per unit.

And a lot of people don't realize there IS a correct side of the spring to have facing the contacts. It's hard to see, but you want to make sure the side that's flat is the one facing the contacts....makes for a more reliable shorting across them. If you just slap the spring on with out looking, you might have the uneven end down, making it less reliable.

[jjefferies]

Even more reason to talk to the armorers.....

I'll have to remember to tell the refs about this at the SoCal quals this weekend...since some of my kids have Zips.

I asked Gere why he didn't appeal to the armorers. He said he did ask afterward and the armorer he spoke to told him that they would have deferred to the BC/referee as they are the ones that know the rules. So it really wasn't worth his while to make and fuss and besides he was winning handily anyway.

[Purple Fencer]

I asked Gere why he didn't appeal to the armorers. He said he did ask afterward and the armorer he spoke to told him that they would have deferred to the BC/referee as they are the ones that know the rules. So it really wasn't worth his while to make and fuss and besides he was winning handily anyway.

I wonder who that armorer was....he doesn't understand the rule if he's deferring to an incorrect interp by the BC.

[jkormann]

How does the armorer know that it's an incorrect interpretation of the rules? I'm still shiny and new about large competitions compared to you guys, but if the BC says, "this is what the rule means" or "this is how we are running the competition" and you being an experienced armorer want to fight it, what is your recourse? Take your kit and leave them armorer-less? My understanding is the BC is the final word for that competition [t.97.7]. You can point out things in the rule book, or appeal upwards after the competition but that's little use for the fencer now.

And which rule says that a ZipTIp is allowed? Alternatively, how do you argue to a BC that may suddenly want to save face, that there is nothing in the rules prohibiting ZipTips and they should be allowed? Is there a letter from National saying "yea verily" that comes with them?

If the Armorer doesn't have the clout, rep or "seasoning" to make the BC agree, or not enough time to get into a discussion with the BC, the options are limited.

[Purple Fencer]

How does the armorer know that it's an incorrect interpretation of the rules? I'm still shiny and new about large competitions compared to you guys, but if the BC says, "this is what the rule means" or "this is how we are running the competition" and you being an experienced armorer want to fight it, what is your recourse? Take your kit and leave them armorer-less? My understanding is the BC is the final word for that competition [t.97.7]. You can point out things in the rule book, or appeal upwards after the competition but that's little use for the fencer now.

And which rule says that a ZipTIp is allowed? Alternatively, how do you argue to a BC that may suddenly want to save face, that there is nothing in the rules prohibiting ZipTips and they should be allowed? Is there a letter from National saying "yea verily" that comes with them?

The rules in the US book do not prohibit screwless tips. That rule is ONLY in place for FIE tournaments -- which the KC NAC is not. USFA never adopted the FIE rule, therefore, the Zips, Schermasports, Negrinis, and Estocs are still legal for US domestic competition at any and all levels.

As for an armorer packing up & leaving....it's been done by a US armorer at an FIE event held in the US when he ran punch tests, masks FAILED those tests, and he was instructed to pass all masks without testing...including the brand that failed. He refused to do so and packed...as I recall the story, it took a LOT of talking to -- and the FIE backing down -- to get him to return.

If the Armorer doesn't have the clout, rep or "seasoning" to make the BC agree, or not enough time to get into a discussion with the BC, the options are limited.

Welcome to the world where the armoring staff is usually at the bottom of the food chain. You should hear some of the stories from DeChaine sometimes.....

[DHCJr]

How does the armorer know that it's an incorrect interpretation of the rules? I'm still shiny and new about large competitions compared to you guys, but if the BC says, "this is what the rule means" or "this is how we are running the competition" and you being an experienced armorer want to fight it, what is your recourse? Take your kit and leave them armorer-less? My understanding is the BC is the final word for that competition [t.97.7]. You can point out things in the rule book, or appeal upwards after the competition but that's little use for the fencer now.

And which rule says that a ZipTIp is allowed? Alternatively, how do you argue to a BC that may suddenly want to save face, that there is nothing in the rules prohibiting ZipTips and they should be allowed? Is there a letter from National saying "yea verily" that comes with them?

If the Armorer doesn't have the clout, rep or "seasoning" to make the BC agree, or not enough time to get into a discussion with the BC, the options are limited.

Look at page 112 of the latest rulebook after m.5.5.a, it is should be very clear what the USFA rule is.

'In USA Fencing competitions, there is no requirement that the pointe d’arrêt must be homologated.'

I think Omar did a great job in correcting the rulebook. The only part that can sometimes cause a small problem is he replaced the 'Note:' with putting the notes in boxes. This actually makes the exceptions easier to read, but it makes it harder to find the exceptions. In the old rulebook, you could find most of the exceptions by searching for Note. Considering he is a lot more consistent I don't mind.