Shimming épée tips

[DHCJr]

I think you guys who set your tips as close as you can to the limit just don't get it. In all the testing that has been done in the past decade or more, the results show that fencers exert more pressure and thus overcome any small changes in distance when hitting. You will NOT get a point by setting your travel distance near the limit vs if you had set it more conservatively.

On the other hand, you WILL get yellow cards, and often red cards if your weapons are set that way.

I use a .4 mm armorer's shim unless a fencer insists on a hair trigger.

There is one point of your advice I disagree with. Using 1 shim. When I was with the U.S. Team I set it between 0.45 and 0.40, but I could do that quickly. I don't advise it for fencers. I agree with you that 0.40 is a good compromise, but it doesn't tackle the other problem a tip that passes 0.05, 0.01 or similar. Unless a tip is hit exactly straight on you probably won't get the touch, because the spring didn't hit both contacts.

I always suggest that they always have a point where it will fail. Would 0.2 be a good fail point for most fencers?

[Strytllr]

As a side question (and slight topic drift) about epee shims... what in the world are all those other slots for on the armorer's shim?

[Downtown]

I would suspect that you are talking about the "slots" for for testing the thickness of a sabre blade.

[Mergs]

Most assuredly, but who does? Or is that yet another obscure thing we are now going to have check at NACs?

[jkormann]

In LINK to FdN FWF Shim Page, what do the different shim tools do, or are supposed to be used for?

[Purple Fencer]

In LINK to FdN FWF Shim Page, what do the different shim tools do, or are supposed to be used for?

On the larger shim, the large notch at the end tests clearance between the top of the barrel and the tip...if it's fits, it's good (even if it's a really tight fit...if ANY portion of the shim fits, it's a pass)

The smaller, rectangular notches on the side are for tests in sabre that are no longer done (but since new dies costs money, why spend on them when the notches can just be ignored?)

The smaller shim with one notch is to test travel. Insert that, push the tip down....if the light does NOT fire, there's sufficient travel. if it DOES fire, yellow card for the weapon being out of spec (this is typically because the contact spring is too long)

[jkormann]

On the larger shim, the large notch at the end tests clearance between the top of the barrel and the tip...if it's fits, it's good (even if it's a really tight fit...if ANY portion of the shim fits, it's a pass)

The smaller, rectangular notches on the side are for tests in sabre that are no longer done (but since new dies costs money, why spend on them when the notches can just be ignored?)

The smaller shim with one notch is to test travel. Insert that, push the tip down....if the light does NOT fire, there's sufficient travel. if it DOES fire, yellow card for the weapon being out of spec (this is typically because the contact spring is too long)

Good to know. I've been using the epee ones as you describe. The others were a mystery.

I've also used the travel test shim to put space between the body and wheel of my son's pinewood derby cars for years. It fits really well and makes a consistent spacing.

[Strytllr]

Awesome. old saber relics, huh? Now i'm really curious. What exactly did they test? Just thickness like downtown mentioned?

[Purple Fencer]

Awesome. old saber relics, huh? Now i'm really curious. What exactly did they test? Just thickness like downtown mentioned?

I'd have to look up my notes, but I believe it was blade thickness up at the tip, as well as tip dimensions.

[migopod]

I'd have to look up my notes, but I believe it was blade thickness up at the tip, as well as tip dimensions.

That's pretty much what I thought too.

[Mergs]

That's how I remember it.

[SJCFU#2]

I'd have to look up my notes, but I believe it was blade thickness up at the tip, as well as tip dimensions.

No need to look through notes and rely on memories - it's all spelled out in the rules (m.23.1 and m.23.2), and even shown in Figure 12 (page 123 in the December 2011 edition of the USFA rules).

And while it's been many years (decades actually!) since I last saw a saber blade checked with shims that's still more than can be said for the 1 mm maximum travel for a foil tip which is called for in m.11.4 - I don't think that I've ever seen that one checked and it's probably going on 30 years since anyone even included a 1 mm shim in their set (I have one, but that was because the manufacturer apparently figured he could cut cost by providing just 0.5 and 1.0 mm shims and expected users to stack them on top of one another when checking for 1.5 mm).

[DHCJr]

Actually, most gauges can not fully test a Sabre. There is the test for where the maximum size of the loop is located. That needs a 3 mm thick gauge. They may not be tested at USFA competitions (very few Armorers have the correct gauge), but I believe they are still tested in Control at major FIE competitions.