Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

edew · 03-06-2003, 05:59 PM

Since folks are discussing equipment from various vendors, I have to give out my very recent anecdote (recent as in about 2 hours ago).

I have a non-FIE Triplette-stamped blade. The claim is that these blades are made by BF (which may very well be the case) and are just as good as the FIE version.

The wire in the groove came out, so I had to take the blade apart to be prepped for a rewire job. So, I tried to unscrew the barrel off the top. The standard method I use is to employ two vise-grips, one on the barrel, and one on the blade about 2 inches below the barrel.

I twisted and the barrel didn't come loose. I twisted some more, and the blade twisted, making a 270-degree corkscrew twist to the now-useless blade.

I knew these blades were weak, because the others I got all broke within 3 weeks of practice (or competition) use.

Advice: Don't get the non-FIE Triplette blades. On the other hand, I do highly recommend their FIE Triplette blades. I still have some that I bought during the 2000 Summer Nationals in Austin. That's almost three years ago, and I've been using them quite consistently. I also have others I got at the 2001 JOs, and they're just as good. I don't have all of them, of course -- some have broken since then, but of the nine or so blades I bought, only three have broken and all the others are still usable (some are just soaking in acetone).

I rate how good a blade is by how many times I can rewire them. Since I do a good job wiring blades, the only reason to rewire them is when the barrel gets smashed so bad I can't use the blade anymore. Most of the FIE Triplette-BF blades have gone through about 3 rewires.

Dav3ey · 03-06-2003, 10:56 PM

Not to say that you should have known, but if they really were just as good as FIE, why not get the stamp?

Whenever you hear "It's just as good..." -- run, don't walk.

MikeHarm · 03-06-2003, 11:22 PM

I recently blaught two Triplette complete weapons with Belgian pistol grips and the triplette non-FIE blue BF blades in them. One of the weapons came with a loose barrel and the wire popped after my first day of fencing, also both were shipped with cheesy chinese bayonet sockets despite my specifically making a point of not wanting chinese sockets and to please make sure to give me the Leon Paul ones.

I'm at week 2, and have fixed the one weapon and replaced both sockets with the LP bayonete's I had. I hope my blades last longer than Edew's three week mark. I was thinking of buying some more bare blades so I could wire them myself because I liked the feel of them but I think I'll hold off a bit after reading this to see how it goes first.

One thing about barrels, if they used loctite on them that is so strong you have trouble getting it loose without risking damaging the blade, if you heat the barrel up a little the loctite breaks down and you can unscrew it easy. I hate loose barrels, so I always use the high strength loctite on mine. Only way to get it off sometimes.

The_Claw · 03-06-2003, 11:43 PM

I feel a little better, triplette was my favoriate vendor for a few years. i usually don't have to rewire too often, by the time i get to the third rewiring, it's usually time to buy a new weapon, i've tried buying just the blades, but i'm terrible about getting them back together again correctly, so i generally go for the whole weapon. it's too bad about the cheesy sockets, mike, hope you got new ones.

speaking of 'foreign materials', someone mentioned that their sneakers were trashy and they needed to find a better pair. i found that the uhlmann brand, made a very nice fencing shoe, it kept the foot stable. thanks again for the suggestions.

edew · 03-07-2003, 03:22 AM

I use cementit glue and put a dab of it on the thread before I tighten down the barrel onto the blade. I don't use loctite, and even if I did, I've never experienced twisting the blade while unscrewing the barrel off a blade. Not even on a F-L blade.

The_Claw · 03-07-2003, 09:54 AM

have glue, screwdrivers, wires, wrenches, etic, still can't fix them correctly, i don't really mind though, it's part of the thrill of fencing.

Catal · 03-07-2003, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by edew
I use cementit glue and put a dab of it on the thread before I tighten down the barrel onto the blade. I don't use loctite, and even if I did, I've never experienced twisting the blade while unscrewing the barrel off a blade. Not even on a F-L blade.

I find a propane torch works best. It melts that suckah right on the blade, and the tip ain't never comin' off.

edew · 03-07-2003, 02:50 PM

Propane torch goes against the rules of illegally modifying your blade above the tang.

pkt · 03-07-2003, 03:31 PM

edew, et al,

I know the Italian national team used to weld the barrels on to the blade...

Blow torch, eh? Wouldn't that melt the cup inside? or distort it a bit?

I use a single drop of crazy glue to affix the barrel.

I also use crazy glue to glue the home-made wire in my foil. For the wire I use Radio Shack's wirewrap wire. It is covered with plastic and therefore can stand a bit of rough handling while it is being cemented to the blade.

The good thing about crazy glue is that it is brittle. As a result it is easy to scrape off with a dull knife. No solvent is needed. I can strip, rewire a blade and have it ready for use in under 15 minutes.

Oh, I use a nylon string and two film holders to turn the blade into a bow while the glue dries.

PK

edew · 03-07-2003, 04:45 PM

Radio Shack's wirewrap wires are too easy to break. I used to do that: make my own foil wires. And I used the very same wirewraps from Radio Shack. The problem I encountered was constant breaks at around 12cm from the top of the blade. The plastic insulation is very, well, plastic, so it stretches easily without breaking. The wire within it, however, is not as plastic and so it could, and did, break after a lot of stretches.

I don't like to use crazy glue because it dries so quickly and you can't use your hands/fingers or other tools to help set the wire into the groove.

Cementit dries nice and slow, so I can make a mistake and still have time to correct it before the glue dries up. I load a bead of glue into the groove, set the wire into the groove, then run a dull jeweler's screwdriver in along the groove to seat the wire, all the while pulling at the end to keep it snug.

I then tape the wire down at the end and then smush the glue back into the groove. If I used crazy glue, my finger or the screwdriver would be stuck to the blade by now.

Cementit also dries somewhat hard as well, and I can easily scrap off the excess glue from the top of the blade.

A friend of mine used to use glue from Negrini. I don't know where you can get it anymore. He poured the glue into a syringe and kept the glue there. Then, he just injected the glue into the groove. Quite nice.

The_Claw · 03-07-2003, 07:55 PM

i read the whole thing, i can't belive it, well, pkt said: the italians weld the whole thing down. they may have the right idea, it just keeps the whole thing from moving and less breakage, then edew mentioned his wiring would eventually break 12cm down from the tip, that's probably where you bend the blade? it's habit for foilists, to bend the top of their blades, i like france lames blades they don't mess up as much, not one of my frace lames blades have an error in them, my wires tend to break past the guard where the wires wrap around the socket for the body cord. i'll save this page and try to use these ideas when i redo my foil next. thanks!

MikeHarm · 03-08-2003, 03:26 AM

I was fencing tonight (week 3) with the TCA weapon that didn't have a wire popped yet or any other problems. As I was fencing the wire popped and was cut. It came out of the grove really smooth so I figured I'd just rewire it when I got it home. Being short on german wires and having a few french ones I decided to swap out the tips. I took the tip off, put a new one on, and was tightening it up to start my rewiring job and I managed to twist the blade in a corkscrew fashion ruining it. First blade I've had that happen to on, I don't feel as hamhanded after reading Edew's post. :-)

Quote:

Originally posted by edew
I use cementit glue and put a dab of it on the thread before I tighten down the barrel onto the blade. I don't use loctite, and even if I did, I've never experienced twisting the blade while unscrewing the barrel off a blade. Not even on a F-L blade.

DJ Apostrophe · 03-08-2003, 11:26 AM

Mike,
I did the same thing with a generic epee blade that the team got from uhlmann. I just kept turning the barrell until it stopped. I wasn't pushing all that hard.... and it seemed like it was going too far, but a loose barrel is useless so I kept turning. When it finally stopped I went to pull the wire all the way down, and it wouldn't go, thinking I just managed to pinch the wire, I undid the barrel, when much to my surprise I realized that I cranked the hell out of the threads

-w

edew · 03-08-2003, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Claw
i read the whole thing, i can't belive it, well, pkt said: the italians weld the whole thing down. they may have the right idea, it just keeps the whole thing from moving and less breakage, then edew mentioned his wiring would eventually break 12cm down from the tip, that's probably where you bend the blade? it's habit for foilists, to bend the top of their blades, i like france lames blades they don't mess up as much, not one of my frace lames blades have an error in them, my wires tend to break past the guard where the wires wrap around the socket for the body cord. i'll save this page and try to use these ideas when i redo my foil next. thanks!

They break about 12cm from the tip because that's where the blade often bends, not because that's where I put a bend. I keep a fairly straight blade (as required).

Now that you claimed that you're giving up on foil for just epee, what are you going to rewire your foils at all?

And please don't advocate France-Lame blades to people, unless you're talking about the maraging FIE France-Lame blades (and those are slightly better than their non-FIE version).

When I used the non-FIE France-Lame blades, I never had to rewire them because the wire broke at around 12cm from the tip. That's because the bleepin' blade broke at around 12cm from the tip way before the glue had time to dry. Telling people that F-L blades are good may be considered false advertising.

PeterGustafsson · 03-08-2003, 01:47 PM

Hi!

Edew wrote:
------
I use cementit glue and put a dab of it on the thread before I tighten down the barrel onto the blade. I don't use loctite, and even if I did, I've never experienced twisting the blade while unscrewing the barrel off a blade. Not even on a F-L blade.
------

Once, I saw a clubmate wreck a blade this way. It was not a FL foil, it was a Vniti epee blade. Think about that.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

The_Claw · 03-08-2003, 11:01 PM

my bg epees also had wires pop out right out of the box, i had to ask someone to look them over, won't ask again. moving along.

i like france lames foils, they haven't broken once in three years, just recently though, after fencing with them heavily for several years, i check under the guard pad and i pulled a wire loose for several weapons and they broke, the wire on the blade itself was fine. One is fie the other not, they're really nice weapons. But, most all the vendors carry francelames, you just have to request it. i like the fact that we can make a weapon virtually anyway we want, by selecting grips/blade etc. But, keeping two sets of weapons in good working order, without hasseling the armorer is difficult and expensive, so I should stay with just one weapon, and i did finally decide on eppe, after thinking about it. I gave a bag of stuff away once before, so I'll check with one of the guys at the other club see who could use some electric foils.

DHCJr · 03-10-2003, 04:53 PM

The problem with France Lame FIE blades is knowing that they are FIE blades. Luckily we don't have that problem with France Lame shut down.

Some of the 'FIE' blades that France Lame put out and were sold as FIE were nothing of the sort. They would have the shield shape, but would be changed slightly. For example a large FlE. By the way that is a little L in the middle of the F and E. Or they would have FN instead of FL in the regular shield. On they might have a FIE-N at the bottom of the shield. This is just some of the ways they would market their blades. At one competition we had a fencer have 6 working weapons and they couldn't use any of them. The fencer thought they had FIE blades. If you have some France Lame FIE blades, check them over carefully to make sure they are FIE.

edew · 03-10-2003, 04:57 PM

There's always the destructive testing method to determine whether a F-L blade is FIE or not. If it breaks within three weeks, it's not FIE in the maraging sense.

Catal · 03-10-2003, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by edew
Propane torch goes against the rules of illegally modifying your blade above the tang.

Wow, you're the second person I've tricked with my propane torch reference, which makes you my "Suckah Du Jour." Would you like to buy the Brooklyn Bridge, it's a steal at $25,000?

KC · 03-11-2003, 01:25 AM

All just great reasons to fence SABRE!!!