Age categories/Fencing

[The_Claw]

[edew]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[The_Claw]

Well, i'm going to the water cooler for a little sip of water. I think you're a nice guy e, but, don't you think even a little tiny bit, that there's an overabundance of cat-egories?

[Mergs]

Well, i'm going to the water cooler for a little sip of water. I think you're a nice guy e, but, don't you think even a little tiny bit, that there's an overabundance of cat-egories?

Nope

[Mo]

Actually the age categories for the USFA are mind boggling. They are meant to be general guidelines but they cross over a lot because of the FIE rules.
I find cadet most fascinating because basically the fencer only is a real cadet for one year but can usually fence in under 14 for three years at Summer Nationals... In Cadet the first meet of the Season is Summer Nationals but in 14 and Under the last meet of the year is Summer Nationals...
If a fencer can get points in the next age groups up from their own they can fence just about anything. For instance, if a 12 and Under can get points in 14 and Under they can fence cadet if they qualify at their Summer National Qualifier.
If the same 12 and Under fencer can get points in cadet they can fence junior, if they can get points in junior they can fence Div 2 or 3. However, if they finish high enough in an age event such as Junior and get say a "C" they cannot fence Division 3 and have to go into Division 2 even though they are not old enough for either one.
The point system is like square dancing.
By the way Cat, not to be a nit picker but Cadet is younger than junior even though it sounds like it should be the other way around.
Cadet is supposed to be Under 16 unless it is at the Junior Olympics where it is under 17 and Junior is supposed to be under 19 unless again it is at the JO's and then it is under 20.
For the younger age groups it depends on how old you are on January 1 of that year of competition which starts 6 months before the date of the event. (which is when the younger age groups start at Summer Nationals)
Clear as mud eh??

[Mergs]

Clear as mud eh??

About as clear as Right of way.

[Peach]

Originally posted by The_Claw
Well, i'm going to the water cooler for a little sip of water. I think you're a nice guy e, but, don't you think even a little tiny bit, that there's an overabundance of cat-egories?

This sounds somewhat mangoesque.

If I understand what you're saying, no, I don't think there are too many categories. There has to be some incentive to compete if you want to develop good fencing, and age groups are a good way to encourage competitors who might not otherwise be able to feel as if it were worth it. I'm coming at this not just as an age-group competitor myself (and there are currently three veteran categories, not one--I'm in the 50-59 group) but as the mother of a daughter who advanced through the age group categories starting with the under-12. There was a brief period when she had too darn many options (she fenced both foil and epee, and was eligible for three age group categories, for several years) but it was great experience.

[Mulligan]

If it ain't broke, break it. Then fix it better.

I agree that the categories are mind boggling. Perhaps international football (soccer) provides a better model:
U10= under 10
U12= under 12
U15= under 15

The divisions could be two or three years apart up to 18 or 21.

then "open."

For those of us that are over the hill:

O30=over 30
O35=over 35
etc.

Not that anyone is going to listen to our suggestions anyway.

[JEC]

Originally posted by Peach
... as the mother of a daughter who advanced through the age group categories starting with the under-12. There was a brief period when she had too darn many options (she fenced both foil and epee, and was eligible for three age group categories, for several years) but it was great experience.

There are great differences in the neurological/neuromuscular development between ages 9 and 16. The current system evolved from having under-11, 13, 15 and junior as recent as '95, to the current one (under-10, 12, 14, cadet and junior). As a father of two under-age fencers, I believe the current system is working quite well. Only the very top (less than 4) fencers at each under-"age" category are able to compete at two or more levels above. The next 30 fencers are competitive in their own category but even then, only about half are able to consistently finish in the top 32 (and few are in the top 16) of the category above.

[edew]

Please, folks, it's not "UNDER-" 10, 12, 14,
but "YOUTH-"10, 12, 14. That means, 10-and-under, 12-and-under, 14-and-under.

And I agree that there are very noticeable differences between a 12 and 13 year-old, and the age categories are appropriate and not too many.

Besides, for The_Claw/Mango/135711/whoever, most of those age categories don't apply to you.

The Junior season effectively ends in April at the Junior World Championships. All junior and cadet events after that time is basically "new season" for them, hence during the Summer Nationals, cadet is U-16 and junior is U-19. That is so when next April comes up, that person will definitely be U-17 and U-20 respectively. Makes perfect sense.

[135711]

the_claw/mango etc. I was searching for an identity, i got so much back as mango, i had to change it, so i just went less adorable. I like the claw.

But, my guess is that you also sign in as different people also, but we don't try to out you on the board, it's sort of sacred.

I still think usfa splits hairs on the categories, the difficulty i have encountered, for the very first time is as an adult, which i prefer as a term rather than veteran [verteran is like: wear's the torn uniform and bandages hanging from my arms and legs] but that adults shouldn't have to fence small children. I find it sort of weird, because adults have to use "anger" to fence a small child, then I don't want to fence a small child. I almost feel that a 10 year old should only fence other children within their own age bracket.

I just wrecked a pastel, so I'm going to talk with peach for advise.

[JEC]

Sorry, you're right. They used to be called "Under 11" and now is "Youth 10" and under.

NAC youth '96

NAC youth '02

[JEC]

Originally posted by 135711
the_claw/mango etc. I was searching for an identity, i got so much back as mango, i had to change it, so i just went less adorable. I like the claw.
... I still think usfa splits hairs on the categories ...

I would have thought that you were for splitting... after all, you have split web-personalities

[135711]

maybe I did and maybe I didn't there's no way of knowing, but the point is this: mango was for fun, the fun fencing spirit, the mango fenced more springy, 135711 was a fencing machine, who can stop her? she is ballistic; what else.... I kept getting ganged up on by the board, and had to sos to zelda, and finally she sorted things out,and then I said that's it, until i think of something sort of with a personality, I have to be 135711, I can't believe I selected a bunch of numbers and we have a few math geniuses on the board, I feel terrible, just terrible! heyheyhey! I don't care, i'm getting out there and doing my running thing tommorow, don't watch for me, I won't be there.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

and now, the burning question:

is indeed 135711 the refutation of the expression "better living through chemistry?"

[Mo]

Originally posted by 135711
that adults shouldn't have to fence small children. I find it sort of weird, because adults have to use "anger" to fence a small child, then I don't want to fence a small child. I almost feel that a 10 year old should only fence other children within their own age bracket.

That is really bizarre, why on EARTH would you have to be angry to fence a child?
As far as feeling that a ten year old should only fence another ten year old, how bad did the little one beat you??

[Mo]

Originally posted by JEC
There are great differences in the neurological/neuromuscular development between ages 9 and 16.

Care to elaborate on that?
There was a show on TLC called the Teen Species, it was absolutely fascinating. Love to hear about age development. There was an article in Time Magazine a couple years ago called "Your Baby's Brain" It was loaded with great information for parents about how their kids were developing.

[edew]

Originally posted by 135711
the_claw/mango etc. I was searching for an identity, i got so much back as mango, i had to change it, so i just went less adorable. I like the claw.

But, my guess is that you also sign in as different people also, but we don't try to out you on the board, it's sort of sacred.

Go ahead and try to out my other sign-ins. I don't have any (it's tough enough to remember my username and password for the various finance-related websites without having to remember who I'm impersonating on some chat forum).

[135711]

i'm really totally broke this month,it's awful, after paying all my bills, rent/phone/electric/food/soap

[that was my mistake, I went and spent $92. on beautiful soaps and I bought flowers for the apartment, and pastels and drawing paper]

cleaning stuff/detergent/laundry soaps/ there's nothing left/ oh and a pair of sneakers so i can run a little bit.


That's it, no more fancy soap.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Originally posted by 135711
but that adults shouldn't have to fence small children. I find it sort of weird, because adults have to use "anger" to fence a small child (zip to new post)
I was referring to Swordsman who was suggesting in another folder, that he has to remain in an agitated state in order to fence, so i thought it may be difficult to maintain, and also think of the kids.

That still appears to make no sense, and in fact seems contradictory. Do you think you need to be angry to fence small kids or not? Or, what do you mean by difficult to maintain an agitated state and "think of the kids?"