Getting an even foil bend

[Kat]

I was wondering how to get a nice even bend in foil blades. I usually just fence with them until a bend apears but generally, they don't bend evenly over the whole blade.

Do any of you have any ways of creating a nice bend in your foils?

Thanks.

[jusplainfencing]

ive been told to always bend the blade before fencing with it so it has give and isnt a danger (i dont know this is what ive been told)
but when i go buy new(dry) blades they always lay them on the floor with their foot on it and grab the end while pulling up wich creates a bend.......i dont know im not up to par on things like that i usually have people do it for me?!? but anyways hope i helped....

[Kat]

Yer, I'm talking about maraging blades, I have mostly Uhlmann BF blades.

Anyone know of blades that tend to develop neater bends in them?

[Zelda]

foil blade with a neat bend? That (in my 5 years experience at least) is not possible.....where bouts in Australia are you Kat?

[DHCJr]

A standard way for Armorers to put a bend in the blade is with a large Cresent wrench. Place the hole over the blade and with your fingers between the wrench and the blade go up and down the blade bending the blade. This is not a fast way of doing it, in fact it is very slow, but it is safe as far as breaking the blade is concerned. It will take time, but it will give you an even curve.

[pkt]

All,

Keep in mind the anti-excessive-bend rule: 2cm bend max measured at the centre of the blade ...

The foot-on-the-blade-and-pull method should work, don't forget to warm up the blade first...rubbing it with a piece of cloth will do.

PK

[Artisan]

Originally posted by pkt
All,

Keep in mind the anti-excessive-bend rule: 2cm bend max measured at the centre of the blade ...

The foot-on-the-blade-and-pull method should work, don't forget to warm up the blade first...rubbing it with a piece of cloth will do.

PK

Ah....please....warm up first by rubbing with a rag? On another thread recently someone claimed that a certain type of metal polish made their blades more flexible. Are you fencing with Play-Doh? C'mon folks - we're talking about metal - steel, and in the case of maraging blades, a particulary specific alloy of steel with a rigorously controlled manufacturing process. Imagine what would happen to your car as it sits in the sun all day if any kind of steel behaved the way you suggest.

If you take a peek at the USFA rules, appendix (A) has all kinds of info about the equipment, masks, blades, clothing, scoring machines,etc. You'll see there that the process specified for blades includes temperature ranges for the various stages of the manufacturing process. Note that the COOLEST temperature at which a blade is subject to a process is during the ageing phase (hence "Mar-aging"...martensite-aging) which is at 480 Deg. C for some 9 hours.

You'd have to really rub that blade long and hard with some very special cloth in order for it to have any effect on what kind of bend you plan to impart upon it.

As for bending the blade with the hole end of a crescent wrench... Thats fine for the tang portion, where you need a bend in a small area to "cant" the grip - and the tang has been annealed (untempered) to make the metal more ductile, but such a technique applied to the blade could easily apply too much strain in concentrated area, weakening the blade in each of those zones - the blade will ultimately fail in one of those spots. Ever notice that once you get a "kink" in a blade from an ugly wrong distance hit, that thereafter it frequently needs straightening in that same spot? That's why.

[DHCJr]

Did you notice, I mentioned having the fingers BETWEEN the blade and the wrench. First you put down how strong the metal is and then you state it is more fragile than fingers. You are more likely to break a blade with putting it under your feet, which is not recomended. I was not the one to come up with the Cresent wrench. This I learned from Dan DeChaine, Joe Byrnes, Ted Li, Carl Oberg and others.

I will repeat it you do need to go up and down and placing your fingers between the blade and the wrench if for one purpose, if you bend it too much your fingers will have been crushed. It is a very slow process and even slower with Maraging blades. I am not talking about a few minutes. I have taken a couple of hours, but not all together. I've never had a blade break that way and the blades will last longer if it is done right. The reason for this is this gets the blade to 'Naturally' bend in one direction instead of two, thus lasting longer.

Also rubbing down the blade is a good thing, especially if you use something like scotchbrite to clean up some of the burrs, which will help in the blade lasting longer.

[Artisan]

Hold on there, DHCJr, the dirty dealer meant no harm!

The speediness of your retort is exceeded only by the inattentiveness with which you apparently read my remarks.

what I said was:
"...such a technique applied to the blade COULD easily apply too much strain in concentrated area..." (emphasis added to COULD, and its implied condition of possibility and not inevitability)

and you said:
"First you put down how strong the metal is and then you state it is more fragile than fingers"
HUH? perhaps there is some misunderstanding - how did I imply either of the above? That is precisely NOT what I said.
The issues I stated related to: the amount of force per unit of area, regardless of how it is applied; by wrench, feet, fingers or normal fencing use; and the matter of temperatures on the metal.

Your remise:
"Also rubbing down the blade is a good thing, especially if you use something like scotchbrite to clean up some of the burrs, which will help in the blade lasting longer."
Is off-target, since I was jesting at the prospect of the temperature increase produced by a CLOTH rubdown affecting the blade's ability to accept a bend - and not commenting in any way on a completely different maintainence practice of keeping a weapon clean and deburred.

The important thing is for people who read this board to gather reliable information.
In this case:
1. pre-bend your new blade before fencing, and do so gradually.
2. the ambient temperatures of all habitable areas of this planet have no quantifiable effect on the metal from which fencing weapon blades are made.

I'm so sorry you took my remarks so personally, and will endeavor to in the future speak only in a most clear and certain manner, avoiding any nuance or wit that may be misinterpreted by the overly sensitive as aggresive or critical.

That said: I've reminded myself of a trueism I think I saw posted as a tagline on this very forum once before:
"Arguing on the internet is like the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded"

[DHCJr]

I appologize, I was hasty. But my answer also agrees with your answer as you explained it. What I talked about was gradual, extremely gradual. That is why I emphasize having the fingers between the blade and the wrench. If you have your fingers between I can't see how you could stress the blade to much. I have seen fencers putting the blade under the foot and I have seen them break. I thank you again for putting in the word gradual. That is one thing I should have said and something that is very true.

I assumed the strength in how the blade was manufactured and the weakness was to say it could damage the blade, using my method with the fingers between the blade and wrench. Do this to a broken blade (so you can be sure you will not damage a good blade) and try it as I descibe. You will find before you can bend it to far, you will be damaging your fingers.

I have been armoring for a long time, but as Dan DeChaine is fond of saying, "We are always learning new things". You never did mention how you put a curve in a blade.

My appologies again.

[Artisan]

Originally posted by DHCJr


I have been armoring for a long time, but as Dan DeChaine is fond of saying, "We are always learning new things". You never did mention how you put a curve in a blade.

Ahh...hugs everywhere.

Actually I'm undecided about the "best way" to bend a blade; see my post "Breaking in a blade" which explains what I believe to be true, but got little traffic in the way of an authoritative reply.

http://www.fencing101.com/vb/showthr...&threadid=5386

Subject to the discussion in that thread, the last two times I set up new blades I gradually worked in a curve by gently bending the blade between two blocks of wood (in a vise) spaced apart by about an inch or so. The distance between the blocks determines the radius of curvature that is applied as you work the blade up and down its length with the grip pulled down to apply the bend. By doing it dynamically, the force is applied more uniformy over the entire area rather than in discrete segments.

At the salle, I straighten / bend / tune up blades when neccesary on the side of the strip under my foot - not by stomping on it, but by carefully drawing the blade up while applying tension with the instep of my back foot (though in front of me at the time), with my heel slightly raised. Sometimes I tweak it with my hand - but try to remember not to since I have had a foil blade break off in my hand - and have seen it happen to others.

I have one foil that is quite tired and must be straightened after almost every hit- that one I wish would die so I can be done with it and replace it.

[Kat]

Thanks for the replies. I usually do bend my blades with my foot when they get a nasty 'kink' in them (as most of my blades do). But yer, I guess working a nice bend into my foils before I start to fence with them would also help...

I have the habit of bending my foils with my hand in the "grab the end and pull down" manner after the halt, but I'm not sure how much that helps anyway.

Btw, Zelda, I'm in Perth.

[DHCJr]

Artisan,

Thank you for your reply. I don't always have a vise with me, but I do sometimes. I am going to try this the next time I can.

[edew]

This is how I bend my blade:

"Ready? Fence!"

WHAMM!!!

"oohhh-ooouggghhh...."

"Oops, too much bend."

<straighten><straighten>

"Ready? Fence!"

WHAMM!!!
...

[pkt]

Artisan,


"The important thing is for people who read this board to gather reliable information.
In this case:
...
2. the ambient temperatures of all habitable areas of this planet have no quantifiable effect on the metal from which fencing weapon blades are made."

Hah! So you think Canada is not a habiotable area of this planet, eh?

I live in Vancouver, BC.

Once we did a demonstration outdoors around Novemeber and blades broke like iccicles.

Two weeks ago when I stepped into the gym where we fence, I immediately said to myslef: "O-o, many blades are going to be broken tonight."

The reason for my guess: the room temp was about 8-9-degree C. Someone left the ventilation fan on and it was blowing cold air.

Sure enough that night 4 blades of various kinds and vintage broke when the usu. rate was maybe one or 2 a month, mostly sabre blades.

(The sabre blades break at the guard mostly: Poor manufacturing, I guess. You do a parry and end up holding only the handle and the guard hangs in a crazy angle...)

PK

[The_Claw]

The thread is a little catastrophic! So many words; vises; grips; blocks of wood, sounds very gothic and icky. Foil blades don't need much of a bend, just fence a little bit with the new foil and it'll eventually become malable. I've seen too many weapons bend back and forth, back and forth until they break, so it's not worth it,

Justine

[Purple Fencer]

Originally posted by pkt


(The sabre blades break at the guard mostly: Poor manufacturing, I guess. You do a parry and end up holding only the handle and the guard hangs in a crazy angle...)

PK [/B]

Nnnaaahhh....that's cuz that's where the Russians weld the tang on...really!