scoring machines / Bang for buck

[KC]

Ok I have read the post which discuss the machines... Now I want your opinions on who makes the absolute best scoring machine for your dollar. Our club doesn't have a lot to spend so getting the most for my hard earned pennys is the issue here.

I want something that will last a while. I have read about the Eigertek and the Favero machines... Is that the best bet?

And I know everyone likes the Allstar and Uhlmann reals but what about the bungee systems that I have seen? Primarily the one from PBT? Are these worth the savings? Or do the reals beat anything out there. These will have to be mobile for a while.

And last... Has anyone used the score box stands that some vendors are selling? If so did you like them? If you could change them would you and if so how? I design metal shelving and furniture and might make one if I felt that we would need it. So the question is... Should I?

Is this enough questions for a single topic or should I ask more?

[damianip]

We've had both the Favero and the Eigertek boxes at my old club for a while. They are both good boxes and both have been reliable for us. I favor the Eigertek for several reasons:

Small size.
Battery option.
Silencing mode when disconnected in foil.

I have seen but not used the new St. Georges box which is in the same price range. It looks pretty good also.

As far as reels go, I prefer the bungee system to cheap reels. We've used the Triplette system and it works pretty well, is fairly durable and is not too troublesome to take down and set up.

Our reels are the Russian made Prieur copies and they are in the shop more than they are on the strip.

I still think this bungee reel system is intriguing, but I've never seen one live:

http://armorerx.com/shocksys.html

I'd like to hear from anyone who has used it.

BTW our machines sit on folding tables: the Favero with its stand and the Eigertek on a piece of Velcro.

Paolo

[sallearmourer]

The SG 11 machine beat the other two hands down with the used of the LEDs lights that stand out from the machine. I have a new SG 11 machine and love it.


Tim

[darius]

Tim, have you been able to take a look at the Blue Sky Labs box? I'm interested in how it stacks up to the SG-11.

[KC]

Darius, do you have a website that we can look at the Blue Sky box to read it's specs?

[darius]

http://www.blueskylabs.com

[DJ Apostrophe]

Does anyone have a picture of this box? I havent heard of it before.
-w

[DHCJr]

I don't have a picture, but I can tell you one big difference over the Eigertek, Favero and the Saint George SG-11 and that is the lights. Think of the lights that are on the side of an 18-wheeler and that best describes the lights on the Blue Sky. They are very visable from all angles, even off the end of the strip. They also will upgrad for free, like the Eigertek, which neither the Favero or Saint George offer. The reason you haven't seen them is they only have been sold in Southern California right now. They also have a feature like the SG-31 which is a whole lot more expensive and that is networking. You can tie in other Blue Sky boxes as repeaters. No special wiring, just regular telephone cords. The price is comparable with the Eigertek and they will do discounts for multiple machines. They have had feedback from Dan DeChaine, Carl Oberg and myself from their preliminary design and it has become my favorite box.

[sallearmourer]

The SG 11 is FIE approved and the lights can be seen from all angles the lights on the SG 11 are bigger than the ones on the SG12 machine. BlueSKY doesn't even have a picture of their machine on the site. The SG 11 can also have repeaters machines as well. If any one what see a SG 11 Machine come my booth I use it as a test box. I have bought american made machine before and then 3 or 4 years down the road go to get service and the company is out of business. I not saying this going to happen to Blue Sky or Eigertek. Has far as the Favero machine I don't like the plastic case or the lights. Before I buy a Blue Sky I have to see
one and the track record of the machine. Where as the Saint George Machines has a prove track record in world cups and Olympics. I have recommend the Eigertek machines to smaller clubs for the price and now the SG 11 is coming out at 356.00.

Tim

[KC]

I have requested a picture from Blue Sky of the box. If I get it I will email to someone who can put it out there for this board to look at... I currently can't do this. We'll see how their internet customer service is and how long it takes for them to reply.

[DHCJr]

FIE approved as I have said in other post means very little. The approval is given for one competition and one competition only. I have some machines that are FIE approved, but I wouldn't use them in any serious competition. They are Uhlmann, some from the 1984 Olympics and some from the 60's. The Blue Sky boxes meet all FIE specifications and rules. The SG-11’s that are labeled FIE approved and are used at the NAC's do NOT follow all the CURRENT FIE rules. You still have to reverse the floor cords. I am not saying the Saint George machines are not good, I am saying the FIE approval only works for the competition that they were approved for.

The lights on the Saint George are much better than the EigerTec, but they both are flush with the case. The Blue Sky has lights that stick out. But this does cause a problem that I do agree with Tim; this makes them more likely to be damage. The biggest negative for the Blue Sky is they do have plastic cases. They have been in use in Southern California for over 2 years and for those who know Dan DeChaine, he has fully tested that they meet and exceed all CURRENT FIE regulations. If I had money, I would get the SG-31, but the original request was “most box for the bang”. We have 6 FIE approved SG-11 in our division, none meet the current rules, because it cost $50 each to bring them up to specification, every time the FIE makes a change.

[darius]

A little off-topic, but earlier somebody asked about the shock-cord systems from armorerx.com.

Small Version:

I saw Bogdan Haiko at a tournament in October and talked to him about his systems, and ended up buying one for the U of Rochester. A few months later, we just purchased three more.

Exhausti[ve/ng] Review:

PLATES: With other pulley systems, you have to anchor the conductive cable somehow, normally tying it to a table or taping it to the floor. This gets messy. With his system, everything has a clip. It's simple, organized, and it definitely keeps the wires free of stress.

CABLES: They're advertised as better than any other. While I haven't been able to verify that, they do show nearly no resistance after heavy use for 4 months. The outer sheathing is a bit rubbery, which makes tangling a big problem. Bogdan thoughtfully includes cable clamps, but we easily solved the problem by purchasing extension cord frames for a dollar at WalMart.

Also note, there is a LOT of cable with this thing. The bungee cords extend way beyond the end of the strip, and the conductive cables cross, and go 3/4 of the way back, before anchoring and then winding their way to the box. What does this mean? I can push the other fencer off the end of the strip, THEN fleche, and I won't run out of cord. This is a good thing.

If you need to, you can easily tie knots in the bungee cord to shorten the length of the system for a smaller room.

PULLEYS: The pulleys on the bungee cord are BIG. We've never had a cord come off it's track, and that's with all the strip-side-hugging-standing-on-cord-then-fleching that a Mike Marx-trained epeeist can muster. The triple-sheave pulleys seem a little gimmicky, but they work well.

PLUGS: The box-end plugs are just standard run-of-the-mill BG type plugs. They work fine.

The fencer end plugs are custom-built from a metal bracket, an epee socket, and velcro. The bracket holds the conductive cable, which is attached to the socket. The velcro accommodates body cords of any type, although there is the potential of it wearing out.

However, the tension from the cables is at 90 degrees to the actual body cord/socket connection, so that tension is not actively trying to pull the body cord out of the socket. Very smart.

One of our fencers went backwards and snapped the cable. I'm happy to report that this socket is easier to fix than any other.

OVERALL:
These things are way better than any other bungee system, homebrew or Triplette or otherwise, that I've ever seen. I'd rather have a reel-based system, but you can buy two of these things for the price of a single Uhlmann reel. Spend another $3 for cord-frames for each cable, and you're set!

Bogdan's a one-man operation, and doesn't keep a big inventory. Sometimes he gets hit with delays from suppliers. However, he's reliable, helpful, and amenable to both positive and negative feedback.

ADJUNCT:
To save duct-tape expenses, we bought 25lb weight plates, and duct-taped the end plates to them. With concerted effort by 2-3 fencers, a single one of these pulley systems can easily be deployed and ready for fencing in less than 5 minutes! This is great, because the U of Rochester sets up 2-4 strips at any given practice.

darius

[oiuyt]

Originally posted by DHCJr
The biggest negative for the Blue Sky is they do have plastic cases.

From the BlueSky website:

Tough metal case

So, which is it? Where the originals plastic and they've been redisgned with metal cases to answer this objection? What does DMFB stand for anyway?

-B :)

[DHCJr]

I would say, I am behind the times. One of the suggestions was to switch to a metal case and Darryl was going to look into that, but to us that was not a critical issue.

As to DMFB, I am not sure. I would have originally said the initials of the founders and Fencing Box. The problem with that is the 'Partners in Crime' are Darryl and Jim. Maybe they used the first letter of Darryl and the last letter of Jim. I'll ask Darryl next time I see him. We have Darryl M? Fencing Box. Does anyone want to try a guess?

Both of them are struggling poor students at USC, so they have been running it on a shoestring. Darryl was talking about a wireless (non-brodcasting) box for all three weapons. Now all he needs is the money for the research. All I need to do is win the lottery and buy into that. Well first I need to first buy a lottery ticket.

[sallearmourer]

The SG 11 Machine meets all the current FIE Spec. Those use at NAC are SG 12 Machine and not the SG 11. You have not seen the new SG 11 which have totaly different lights system from the 12 Model. The SG 11 model can also be order with a 12hr rechargeable battery pack. You must not have seen a SG 11.


Tim

[DHCJr]

You're right the ones I have seen are the SG-12, SG-21 and SG-31. All are good machines. They say FIE approved also and that is why I am more interested in they meet FIE specifications. I am sure the SG-11 will be good also. I will ask Darryl next time I see him if he can put a picture up. I would like to see a picture of the SG-11. Tim, is there a picture online for the SG-11? As I said before the lights on the Blue Sky as with all the parts are based on off the shelf items, in this case the lights you see on the side of 18 wheelers which do have to be tough, bright and visible from many angles.

[Methix]

As for boxes, I like the Favaro's, but I have not seen these BlueSky ones which sound pretty interesting.

As far as reels go, I saw a good deal at JO's. Zivkovik was selling some that looked like steel pizza boxes. Really square and really flat. From an initial inspection they seemed like decent quality reels and were only 550$/pair which beats the price of Uhlmann's by a long shot. Not as cheap as a bungee system, but great price for reels.

[sallearmourer]

The reels are Favaro's also a club in our division brought a set work great last weekend.


Tim