flunge or cross over (saber)

[buccaneer]

I was wondering if its more effective to cross over behind or flunge. How will I get further, which situation justifies which of them?

If this has been up many times just tell me where I can find the thread...

[Craig]

A flunge is a forward movement and crossover in sabre is only allowed going backward. Your question as worded is like asking "Is it better to lunge or retreat?"

I guess you may be asking what is the best way to cover the most ground. In sabre, going forward with short, quick advances is better than long, loping ones. Going backward, retreats will enable you to change direction more quickly, but a jump-back or backwards crossover will give you more distance to get out of harms way, especially when the attack takes you by surprise.

Cheers,
Craig

[buccaneer]

Originally posted by webmaster
A flunge is a forward movement and crossover in sabre is only allowed going backward. Your question as worded is like asking "Is it better to lunge or retreat?"

Sure, crossing over left before right leg forward is not allowed, left behind right is. This may sound like yoga but we learned to "fleche" like that...
Of course for lefties the right leg must cross over behind. Wouldnt that be a legal "fleche" in the US too (and therefore an alternative to the flunge)?

Thanks for answering so fast

[Craig]

Sure, crossing over left before right leg forward is not allowed, left behind right is.

You were taught incorrectly.

See rule t.75 in the 2002 US Fencing rule book (available for download at www.fencing.net or at www.usfencing.org):

t.75 (b) 3. The fleche and any forward movement crossing the legs or the feet is forbidden. Any offence will be penalized as specified in Articles t.114, t.116, t.120. Any touch scored by the fencer at fault will be annulled. However, any touch correctly executed by the opponent is valid.


The rules state any crossing of the legs/feet going forward is forbidden; if you do it, yellow card against you.

Hope that helps.

[Philistine]

I think (??) what he is talking about is not actually crossing the rear foot in front of the front foot, but instead launching from the front foot as if fleching, but instead of swinging the rear foot forward normally on the left side of the body, you swing it around on the right side of the body. That way, it does not actually go in front of the front foot, thus no crossing over.

I was never taught this, but kind of do it naturally (or unnaturally, more likely ) to keep myself from crossing over since I've recently got back into fencing and when last I fenced, the fleche was legal.

--Philistine

[buccaneer]

Originally posted by Philistine
I think (??) what he is talking about is not actually crossing the rear foot in front of the front foot, but instead launching from the front foot as if fleching, but instead of swinging the rear foot forward normally on the left side of the body, you swing it around on the right side of the body. That way, it does not actually go in front of the front foot, thus no crossing over.

I was never taught this, but kind of do it naturally (or unnaturally, more likely ) to keep myself from crossing over since I've recently got back into fencing and when last I fenced, the fleche was legal.

--Philistine

Yeah, thats what I was trying to say. Does anyone here exept for Philistine an me do this?

Should have called the thread "flunge or swing rear foot around on the right side"

...but we always called it the "legal crossing over"

[AndrewH]

Yea i know what you're talking about, me and another guy on my team made up (or at least we think we made it up) a move dubbed the "crazy ivan". Goes something like this (for a righty):

1. Retreat while moving to the left of the strip
2. When the opponent attacks, move your front foot over to the right and swing your rear foot out and around, so it ends up in front of your front foot, to the riht side
3. Pivot your front foot and tap your opponent on the back (gotta be done in the same tempo though, before the halt is called for passing)

Hasn't been called illegal yet, but the rule that Craig pointed out might apply here.

[pkt]

andrew,

was the ref's mouth wide open? I guess the mental 'Halt!' just didn't come out fast enough.

PK

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

This reminds me of a scene in a MP film, where an official from the " Department of strange walks" (name translated back to English from Swedish, I don´t know the original English name) shows off some unusual methods of locomotion.

During 1st week of freshman year, beginners at my Uni. were made to do all sorts of crazy stuff, one of which was to do these walks on Main street. One of them - which oftem came up at Uni. parties after some booze - went like this:
1. Stand like normal
2. Bend right knee forward
3. Put left knee behind right knee
4. Adjust angles in the leg joints so that left foot is in front - and to the right - of the right foot.
5. Repeat steps 1-4 for the other foot.

While this is not effective in fencing - would it break the leg-crossing rule? The knees are not crossed suring the step, after all.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[pkt]

Peter,

It's the Ministry of Silly Walks. You can now buy a t-shirt with that walk on it:
http://www.emerchandise.com/product/...007/s.JL4JhIAL

Afte one tourney, abunch of us went for dinner, and while crossing one of the streets in Chinatown, I did ne of these silly walks right in front of a police squad car.

You should have seen the face of the copper...

PK