Jackets for Sabre?

[LDR]

Hey everyone -

I'm just starting sabre, and was wondering what kind of jacket you more experienced sabrists (sabreurs?) would recommend: cotton or nylon? I would think a heavy cotton jacket would provide a bit more protection against bruising, but perhaps at the expense of mobility. But I have a tall and slim build and the cotton jackets at the club tend bulkup around my waist. So I was initially thinking of going the nylon...

Also, does anyone have any suggestions on whether to initially go dry or electric on the mask and blade? I can afford to go either way, really. I do want to compete at a later date, but was wondering what is more practical at this time.

Thanks for your help.

[DHCJr]

The differences in expense for the blade is minimum, so I would go electric there. The only real difference is a grounded connector. You can take a standard guard, paint the inside, leaving an opening for the connector to be electrically grounded to the guard. At the back you can use tape for the proper insulation.

As far as the mask, if you can afford it, two masks, one for dry and one for electric. The biggest failure in Electric Sabre masks is the bib. If you can avoid using it except when you fence electric, you will be much better off.

[broncofencer]

I have used both types of jackets for sabre and have found it is really more of a comfort issue than anything else. If you prefer to wear the nylon go that way especially if you want to compete because once you have all the other equipment on "some" of the bruising will decrease even with the nylon jacket.

As for the mask and weapon I suggest getting the electric equipment rather than the practice stuff.
the reasons are this a "practice sabre" is an electric sabre without the two prong or bayonet socket attached(plus the minor changes listed above) so you might as well get the electric and be done with it.

I only use my sabre mask for competition to keep it in good shape, at practice I use my 3 weapon mask (assuming you have one from previous fencing) or if I am fencing electric I use a less exspensive model I bought for something like $50-$60 from a small vendor in Califorinia. (He posts here I think) It works really well and if it gets to beat up to bad it is easy to replace. The nice thing about sabre is it is a all up front cost (no wires or tips to constantly fix) so practice equipment really doesn't save you any money in the long run.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

I've found the nylon jackets to be more comfortable...but I try to always wear the underarm protector to help with cuts to the shoulder.

Definately buy electric weapons...don't bother with a dry sabre. After several years of competing with multiple family members, our strategy is to use an old/lower grade lame and mask for practice, and then keep a top of the line mask/lame solely for competition. It's a pain, but seems to save a lot of money in the long run--especially at the last minute at major competitions.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally posted by broncofencer


I only use my sabre mask for competition to keep it in good shape, at practice I use my 3 weapon mask (assuming you have one from previous fencing) or if I am fencing electric I use a less exspensive model I bought for something like $50-$60 from a small vendor in Califorinia. (He posts here I think) [/b]

Hmmmm...it probably wasn't me...I tend to push the Uhlmann (and now Negrini) masks for sabre.,,and I haven't sold that many sabre masks since I started.

[pkt]

All,

I think if LDR can afford to, which sounds like it's the case, I'd suggest that he look at the Leon Paul X-Change mask with the FIE approved exchangeable bib. http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/Onl..._Range_79.html

Since you're just starting, since you can afford it, you might as well go for the best at the moment, then you don't have to buy and carry two masks. When the bib goes, just replace it. Or buy 2 to start with. (I've suggested to Leon Paul that perhaps they should make non-condustive bibs for steam sabre. But guess what the answer was. Basically, no, it's not worth their while to do so which I understand and accept 100%.)

If you plan on competing, I hope better sooner than later, you might as well go for the 800N stuff. Why spend extra money? why bother with having to order the same stuff again...

DHC Jr, correct me if I'm wrong, there is no difference between an electric sabre BLADE and a non-electric sabre blade. The only diff is in the guard which you've expounded on already. That's why i won't buy from one of the vendors because they advertise non-electric and electric sabre BLADEs. d'oh!

As for protection against bruises [veeco - my dime-sized bruise is about 90% gone. That's in less than 36 hour...] I have one of those cotton plastrons from Allstar that's like a vest with short sleeves. But alas, they are not legal for tournaments anymore, and hence no longer available form anyone...DHC Jr, am I right?... even though it does have the required 2 layers in the under-arm area, but it is not 800N.

If you want a 'pattern' of that, send my a private message. Just to reinforce my msg in the last para.: IT IS NOT LEGAL FOR COMPETITIONS. You may be able to get away with it in non FIE tourneys ...

PK

[DHCJr]

Yes, you are right about the blades. As I said above, all you need to turn a standard/steam (I like that term) is a B-C grounded connector, some paint and tape. Now if they sell electric weapons vs. non-electric, OK. But I agree, if someone sells both electric and standard blade, I would think they don’t know anything or they think I don’t know anything.

For USFA competitions they do not have a specific Newton requirement for underarm protectors, just that you are required to have them. As for not being available, I don't know. It would be terrible for me as I am ambidextrousness. Or to say it another way, I am equally inept with both hands and all weapons.

Also your suggestion about getting the Leon Paul is a much better suggestion than mine. That is a great concept and what is better a good execution of the idea. I talked to Barry at the Junior Worlds just after they were approved and maybe he will consider having an Epee/Foil Mask with the Exchange bib. There are some team bibs I would love to burn. Then that bib could be used for Dry Sabre. How about it Barry?

[pkt]

It was Barry and laurence who gave me that response re the dry bib for the X-Change mask.

As for the short-sleeved vest. Thank you for the USFA ruling.

http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/Onl...d_350N_71.html
Plastron sabre Mens or Womens full body and half sleeves 350 newtons (Reference 99)
Provides extra protection for sabreurs. This quilted plastron covers the same area as a t-shirt and provides great protection from bruising.
Price: £34.90 £41.01 Including VAT at 17.5%

http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/Onl...E_800N_70.html
Plastron full Mens or Womens body F.I.E. 800 Newtons(Reference 400)
A full length plastron which covers both sleeves for extra protection. It meets CEN performance level 2 and is tested to in excess of 800N. The plastron is constructed from a synthetic Kevlar like material that is lightweight and breathable.
Price: £45.00 £52.88 Including VAT at 17.5%

Most other equiptment suppliers have only the 3/4 plastrons.

PK

[LDR]

Thank you all for your comments. I'm also of the mindset that you should buy as high quality equipment that you can from the outset, so you don't find yourself continually upgrading as your skill level increases (hopefully).

I have a follow-up question regarding the type of socket for an electric sabre: is there any performance difference between the two-prong and bayonet sockets? Is one considered more reliable than the other?

Also, if I decide to go with the Leon Paul X-change sabre mask as PK suggested, do I have to buy via their website (hopefully when the exchange rate is more favorable to the U.S.$) or is there a Leon Paul rep here in the U.S?

Thanks again everyone.

- LDR

[pkt]

LDR,

RE however you buy your stuff:
all I should say is "caveat emptor" check and compare.

RE the socket:
check out which type the rest of your club mates use. Then go with that. In case you run out of weapons - it does happen - in a tourney, you cmy borrow.

But on an absolute term, the bayonet gives you more peace of mind. They fall apart less frequently.

The 2-prong's major problem is the little screw that holds the safety clip on to the prong: it comes off easily and frequently. Furthermore, the wires inside the prong come undone just as easily.

Bayonets don't have these problems.

I use bayonet for foil and 2-prong for sabre.
D'oh. Why? because of the weapon breakage problem I cited above.

I rarely have problem with the bayonet. OTOH, I'm forever fixing the 2-prong or looking around the floor for the small screw, the clip, the spring and the bolt...

PK

[DHCJr]

You are of course speaking of the German style. The French style has it's own quirks. The main problem with Leon Paul is intermittencies. This is mostly seen at the higher levels, because of the speed. All cords are compromises.

On all body cords especially the German style make sure and have a strain relief at the both ends of the body cord, especially the weapon end. This serves two purposes. It helps protect the wire from cuts and it lessens the number of breaks right at the end of that hard case.

[sallearmourer]

The only problem I have seen with the X-Change mask is the grove is made of ALm and it does corridor if you take the bib out and wipe it out it should prevent corrison between the bib and the mask. I had to use a sanding disk on the the one I repair.


Tim

[pkt]

Tim, thanks for that insight.
(Hey, try to use more puncuations, eh? Make it easier to read esp. for us ESL [English as Second Language people] .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DHC Jr,

That's why I always loop the wire from the socket around my hand so when I extend, the loop in my hand pulls on the long part of the wire not the plug at the weapon.

Yes, it does indeed takes some getting used to...but it does IMHO extends the live of the wire and reduces the frequency of repairs required. Most important of all, it reduces breakage when one is fencing.

PK

[Capt. Slo-mo]

We've found that the 2 prong cords for sabre tend to last longer and are easier to repair. But that's just our preference. I know a lot of bayonet folks who wouldn't go any other way.

I just try to remember to keep a small screwdriver handy and retighten the itty bitty screw on the plug restraint every time we compete. We haven't lost one in quite a while.

[pkt]

DHC Jr

I've taken to taping the little screw on the safety catch as well as the bolt on the other side.

I was told that this is not kosher for tournaments, is that true?

Reason for taping the whole thing is obvious.

PK

[whtouche]

As far as how to go about purchasing the x-change sabre mask from leon paul, I believe it has to be bought directly from them, via there website or I suppose you could call them..
Santelli carries their products in the U.S. but last may when I was looking into this mask I emailed Santelli and they told me they didn't carry the x-change yet as it hadn't been approved by the F.I.E. for competition. I emailed leon paul and they told me this wasn't true.
So I ordered from them(leon paul), and to my knowledge santelli still doesn't carry it.
The downside is that it took nearly a month and a half, possibly more, to actually receive it, where on the website it said I would have it in 7 to 11 days. I was told during the middle of this that the person who custom makes each mask was on vacation, which is understandable, but bad luck for me I suppose. Every time I emailed leon paul I received a response within the day or the next day, and they're very friendly people.

[DHCJr]

Originally posted by Capt. Slo-mo

I just try to remember to keep a small screwdriver handy and retighten the itty bitty screw on the plug restraint every time we compete. We haven't lost one in quite a while.

You brought up a good point. There is nothing in the rules to forbid the taping down of the screws. I have never thought of taping down the German style. Now the Prieur, I always suggest a small piece of tape over the screw holes to keep from loosing them.

Again, good suggestion.

[pkt]

DHC Jr

Thanks agian.

I've beenusing white, cloth hocket tape for this purpose. Perhaps clear tapes would be less eye-catching, eh?

It's just that I've been told by more than one person that because of the posibility of 'putting a switch' at the plug,that's why the tape was forbidden.

It's good to get the opinion of a qualified armourer's opinion.

PK