Best fencing movie

[pkt]

Lemberg & oiuyt,

The sabre in Sunshine was good, esp. the final parry riposte, but there's not enough of it. Furthremore, the fencing appear a bit too stiff...

We're talking of quality as well as quantity.

That said, thanks for your contribution.

PK

[LDR]

PK -

I believe it was my kendo sensei who once told me that Toshiro Mifune studied Suitoh-ryu iaijutsu - a more classical and combattive style of today's iaido (the art of drawing the sword).

Anyway, keeping in mind that samurai would always sheathe their swords blade-up in the saya (scabbard) to facilitate quick draws and strikes, this is what happens in the final fight scene of "Sanjuro":

1. the sword is completely pulled from the saya with the left hand in an out and up motion;

2. Momentum of this movement helps rotate the left-hand into a palm-up position (pronated?), which repositions the cutting-edge of the sword towards the opponent;

3. The right-hand is placed against the sword's mune (spine) to help guide the cutting-edge of the sword to slash upward and diagonally, from left to right (left hip to right shoulder); cutting every vital organ in between - thus the gushing effect that you talked about.

4. To add even more weight behind the blade, the left foot is swung behind the body and to the right. For example, assume the typical fencers stance: feet at 45-degrees, right foot forward. Now take your left foot, and slide it straight back to the right until you get into a quasi-lunge position except your right foot remains planted in its original position.

Obviously all this is accomplished in seconds, and I know it's terribly difficult to visualize.

It's funny you brought up that particular scene because I've always enjoyed how that was choreographed. If fact, sometime ago I found a great interview with Tatsuya Nakadai (Mifune's antagonist) where he talks about all the preparation that took place to film that very scene:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/dialog...nakadaiT1.html

Oh, in that final fight scene, Mifune is actually facing foward, not backward.

- LDR

[pkt]

LDR,

That link provided some great insights into Kurosawa's M.O.
It showed why he was one of the greats.

You missed my point. But having said that, I do appreciate your perspsective as a kendoka.

I read in Kurosawa's book that the steel lung Tatsuya Nakadai had to wear was firstly for safety reasons, but mainly it was to produce the gushing effects.

This is what I meant by the mechanics of the gushing heart - I should have mentioned this on Valentine's Day, - as Tatsuya Nakadai san mentioned there was the hose. The gushing was produced by 30-psi pressure. The 'blood', since the movie was shot in b&w, the only thing that showed up correctly - was syrup!!

This is one of those movie trivia.

PK

[LDR]

PK -

Sorry, sorry....I totally misread your previous post about the 'mechanics' of the gushing heart. I gotta' be more careful.

- LDR

[Mulligan]

Originally posted by pkt
Mulligan et al,

The duel in Scaramouch was excellent in the way that:
1. You actually can see some of the 'proper' fencing moves as we sport fencers know the,;
2. The fencing did not look staged;
3. The combatants sure look like they're about to kill one another which only attributes to the actors' good acting.

I highly recommend it.

PK

Thanks...I have been meaning to watch it, just haven't seen it anywhere.

[Sildar]

The best fencing I've ever seen in a movie was the foil scene in an old flick called "Mississippi Gambler." It's not supposed to be dueling, just foil practice, but the fencing is authentic classical French techniques, performed by people who clearly knew what they were doing. I've never seen fencing anywhere near that good in any other movie.

Another personal favorite of mine is the fencing scene at the end of "The Court Jester" with Danny Kay; he was another actor who had some very good instruction, but he's been hypnotised so that he alternately thinks he's the world's greatest swordsman or that he knows nothing about fencing. As a result, he's either casually parrying and riposting with perfect grace and arrogance, or flailing and retreating frantically, while his opponent becomes increasingly confused. Very entertaining.

[pkt]

Thanks, Sildar.

PK

[D'Artagnan1673]

The Court Jester is entertaining. Basil Rathbone has done his share of fencing movies.

Count of Monte Cristo (2002) -- I enjoyed some of the earlier fencing scenes, but the final duel between Dantes and Fernand was poorly shot, no doubt to hide the fact that Danes didn't know what he was doing

On the movie as a whole, I have to say that it is boring when put up agains the book. You simply can't take a story with the depth of The Count of Monte Cristo and put it into a 2 hour movie and please those who have read the book.

3/4 Musketeers is still one of my favorites. I'd have preferred less comedy, but you will probably never find anything quite as faithful to Dumas' story.

Rob Roy -- Good movie, perhaps too long. Still, there's nothing like a story with a bunch of clansmen. I haven't a drop of Celtic in me, but I love their storys, music and culture.

Has anyone ever seen Ivanhoe? Now there's a great movie! (Also written by Sir Walter Scott)

[S. Fisher]

"Count of Monte Cristo (2002) -- I enjoyed some of the earlier fencing scenes, but the final duel between Dantes and Fernand was poorly shot, no doubt to hide the fact that Danes didn't know what he was doing "

I agree, but it should be know that William Hobb's last fight was not seen on film, it was replaced by Nick "Star Wars: Ep 1&2" Gilliard. Somehow he got involved. So we can blame it on him.

[S. Fisher]

"On the movie as a whole, I have to say that it is boring when put up agains the book. You simply can't take a story with the depth of The Count of Monte Cristo and put it into a 2 hour movie and please those who have read the book."


I have not read the book. But I can say that Sabatini's Scaramouche is much better than the film.

[D'Artagnan1673]

ah, I was wondering why style and technique went out the window and the last fight more or less resembled Gladiator.

[BugabooX]

My faves:
The Court Jester and The Princess Bride for the humor and fun.
Sunshine for excellent story and realistic portrayal.

By the way, the Duellists movie title was spelled with two Ls. The movie poster hanging on my wall still tweaks the editor's nerve in me.

[S. Fisher]

"I think you menat the 1973 The Three Musketeers with Michael York, Richard Chamberlain and of course Raquel Welch. the opening father - son practice was a la James Bond moveis, i.e. DON'T miss it."


Yes, I said 1974 because that is when the Four Musketeers was released. I could have said the 73/74 Musketeers. Oh, well.

[DHCJr]

Those were controversial films, at least for the actors. They were only making one film and at the end after the actors went home, the producers said we have enough film for two films. It took some time for the actors to get paid for doing two films. In fact there was a sequel The Return of the Three Musketeers that would not have happened if they were still no settlement for the 3/4 Musketeers. If it should have been filmed is another matter.

There was also fencing in Our Man Flint, maybe not good, but it was there. Flint with Sabre fencing two opponents. I also felt 'The Court Jester' was great. Danny Kaye was amazing, he may have been known as a comedian, but his athletic and dancing ability rivaled those that were known for those attributes.

[D'Artagnan1673]

Originally posted by DHCJr
If it [The Return of the Musketeers] should have been filmed is another matter.

I agree with that point. Twenty Years After, which Return of the Musketeers is loosely based upon, is too big a book to follow in a 90 minute movie. Altogether a blemish upon the previous two movies.

[S. Fisher]

"Those were controversial films, at least for the actors. They were only making one film and at the end after the actors went home, the producers said we have enough film for two films. It took some time for the actors to get paid for doing two films. In fact there was a sequel The Return of the Three Musketeers that would not have happened if they were still no settlement for the 3/4 Musketeers. If it should have been filmed is another matter."

Yes, I also know that. But thanks for pointing that out for those who did not know.

There was also a few episodes in Get Smart where Maxwell Smart does some cliched, but fun, sabre fencing. Which airs on TV Land.

I also enjoyed a lot of Fred Cavens work on Walt Disney's Zorro. Which, unfortunately, was taken off the air about a year ago.

[pkt]

OK, people, stay with us here. This thread is 'BEST fencing movie'; not just 'movies and TV shows with fencing in it'. Stay focused.

An English fencer - she's a post-doc on comupter science here working for UBC - mentioned that, in her opinion, Zorro with Catherine Zeta-Jones was her fav.

PK

[S. Fisher]

I liked the all too short fight in the Mission with Robert De Niro.
It was also the only time I have ever seen a Walloon sword in a movie.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/63...1.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

I will second the Mask of Zorro for pure fun & it because it has Catherine Zeta Jones in it.

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0120746/1-7.jpg

[Inquartata]

Originally posted by pkt
OK, people, stay with us here. This thread is 'BEST fencing movie'; not just 'movies and TV shows with fencing in it'. Stay focused.

Ja woll, herr Threadfuhrer!

[Joaveen]

Well--

I'm a little hesitant to post, just 'cause I haven't seen a lot of the movies mentioned, and also because I watched everything pre-fencing , so I probably am NOT the person to ask about the very best one, but...

Princess Bride is a classic movie, but yes, a little...theatrical. Cool anyway!

I've seen Court Jester, I think it's a great movie just by itself, and I am a fan of Danny Kaye...

Zorro--what does anyone think of the rest of the movie (yeah yeah, Catherine Zeta-Jones is cool and all that, but the rest of the film...?How about the whole circle thing?) Still, it's one of my all-time fav's...

Count of Monte Cristo may surpass them all; yeah, you may not get close to the books, but if you take the movie just as a movie, isn't it awesome...?

And a question. Has anyone seen the 3 Musketeers version with Gene Kelly...the fencing scene was cool (I'm a fan of Gene Kelly, too... ) to a non-expert, what do all you experts out there think?