Can't Uncant?

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

A shipmate of mine ordered an epee and it came with quite a substantial cant in it. Is it possible (or advisable) to try and remove the cant? If so what do you suggest?

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

Removing a cant is not a big deal...given a vise and some muscle (and, perhaps, a little bit of heat). But most fencers of skill prefer a cant...how experienced is your shipmate?

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

But most fencers of skill prefer a cant...how experienced is your shipmate?

You are a very amusing fellow! I will be certain to tell him he isn't supposed to change something he neither asked for or likes. I am certain he will find this quite amusing!

His concern regarding changing the cant to something he prefers (rather than returning the blade) is how manipulating the blade at the tang in this manner may weaken the metal.

[jjefferies]

You are a very amusing fellow! I will be certain to tell him he isn't supposed to change something he neither asked for or likes. I am certain he will find this quite amusing!

His concern regarding changing the cant to something he prefers (rather than returning the blade) is how manipulating the blade at the tang in this manner may weaken the metal.

Well "Beloit..." is correct that most blades are canted though occasionally someone will prefer not to have it. However removing the cant as mentioned is possible if you have a vise or some way to grip the blade next to the tang. Then take a large crescent/monkey wrench, put the tang throught the large hole usually found on the end of said wrench and use the leverage provided to straighten the tang.

As you mention there is some concern that you could break the tang but these are intentionally left soft and most will endure some bending. Just don't bend it one way and then back again. Each bend in the metal makes it more likely to fail at the bend.

Suggestion is that your friend check whether the cant actually is a problem. There are usually two cant's in a blade, down so the blade will naturally be a straight line from the fore arm. This is the cant that I suspect you are referring to. The other cant is to the side (left or right) depending on which hand the user prefers. Again so that the blade is straight out from the forearm. This conforms to the hand so the blade is again straight out as compared to the forearm.

J.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Again, my friend knows how he likes his blade and has put a cants in them, so he does know how.

Is it possible if some of the armorers on the forum jump in and offer their advice on my inquiry? As I'm getting answers here to questions not being asked, because people are trying to be helpful but don't seem to know that answer to my question, so they're creating questions they can answer.

To review: If a blade has a significant cant in it, (both down & to the side) can it be straightened out a bit? Or is this not advisable as it's already been bent, so straightening it up a bit with weaken the metal? Thank-you

[migopod]

Again, my friend knows how he likes his blade and has put a cants in them, so he does know how.

Is it possible if some of the armorers on the forum jump in and offer their advice on my inquiry? As I'm getting answers here to questions not being asked, because people are trying to be helpful but don't seem to know that answer to my question, so they're creating questions they can answer.

To review: If a blade has a significant cant in it, (both down & to the side) can it be straightened out a bit? Or is this not advisable as it's already been bent, so straightening it up a bit with weaken the metal? Thank-you

Jjjeffries addressed methodology well.

....removing the cant as mentioned is possible if you have a vise or some way to grip the blade next to the tang. Then take a large crescent/monkey wrench, put the tang throught the large hole usually found on the end of said wrench and use the leverage provided to straighten the tang.

Just use a big ol' wrench (perhaps a big ol' wench would suffice in a pinch) and some muscle and straighten it out as you would a cabin boy.
The tang will be work-hardened by the uncanting, but not significantly enough to not do it if that's what you want to do. This is to say that if you (or your shipmate) uncant the blade it will still probably break within 8" or so of the tip, not at the tang.

[fencerbill]

Again, my friend knows how he likes his blade and has put a cants in them, so he does know how.

Is it possible if some of the armorers on the forum jump in and offer their advice on my inquiry? As I'm getting answers here to questions not being asked, because people are trying to be helpful but don't seem to know that answer to my question, so they're creating questions they can answer.

To review: If a blade has a significant cant in it, (both down & to the side) can it be straightened out a bit? Or is this not advisable as it's already been bent, so straightening it up a bit with weaken the metal? Thank-you

Short answer -YES.

If you can put a cant on a tang, you can modify it. It is also true that each successive bending at the cant-blade transition can make the blade more liable to break there.

So your friend has to decide just how unhappy he is with the present cant.

There are enormous variations in how long a blade will last, although most break sooner or later. The blade in question could last years or days. Also we are talking about changing the likelihood of a blade breaking at the tang-blade joint. Only a minority of blades break there anywhere, so now you are talking about a possible increase in the likelihood of a small percentage of blade failures.

If the blade were mine, I would change the tang if I were that unhappy.

[Inquartata]

I would also check the place where the tang and the blade join for (1) any sign of cracking, and (2) sharp corners. In the case of (1) I would avoid bending it again. In the case of (2), take a small rounded file, such as a needle file, and round out those sharp corners. This will help relieve the stresses there a bit.

[foibles]

You see?
You can uncant a blades scant slant.

[Mergs]

OK, so most of the armorers here have answered your question in one form or fashion - bottom line - yes you can, and no, it won't weaken the blade - that is provided you only bend it back, or adjust it a few times, otherwise you run the risk of fatigue failure. Inq is right about the sharp corner being a stress concentration point, the only problem is that if you file it out you end up reducing the cross-section of the tang and may make it a bit weaker by creating an undercut. The only thing I would add is to put slow, steady pressure on the tang when you are bending it. Good luck.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Thanks for your answer good sir!

Sorry if I came up churlish with the first two posters, I was just trying to keep this thread on course rather than veering off rudderless with high winds blowing. Without a steady hand at the wheel, I feared the next person would argue that it could only be done if you have PIL, wearing ballestras and a cup.

[CvilleFencer]

Without a steady hand at the wheel, I feared the next person would argue that it could only be done if you have PIL, wearing ballestras and a cup.

Which would of course be nonsense. Every armourer knows that all you need to cant a blade is a vice and an Italian grip!

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Aren't they one in the same? Your vice is the Italian grip?

[telkanuru]

If your cant sounds more like Kant, then your question about uncanting the cant can be more easily replied to, can't it?

[Mergs]

Which cant are we referring to? Anglican or Gregorian? (recyled)

So, how much cant could Kant uncant if Kant could uncant cant? Or can't he?

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

If I didn't want to recant before, I certainly do now!

[Inquartata]

As a pirate you should probably be more interested in decanting than in recanting.

[Belegur]

As a pirate, I thought he'd be more familiar with the thieves' cant.

As an aside, though, bad form for whoever your friend bought the blade from to put a cant in the blade when it wasn't asked for. Readjusting it is easy enough (even if you don't have a vise, the ring-end of an adjustable wrench will do. In my experience, all you need to do is apply gradual torque in the direction you want the bend to go, using the floor as a support), but that's not really the point, is it?

[wdragon007]

To review: If a blade has a significant cant in it, (both down & to the side) can it be straightened out a bit? Or is this not advisable as it's already been bent, so straightening it up a bit with weaken the metal? Thank-you

Repeating what pretty much everyone else has said... unless the shoulder is already weakened, changing the cant slightly shouldn't do significant. Any time you bend the metal, it does weaken it slightly but provided you aren't bending it back and forth, over and over, you should be fine.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

You are a very amusing fellow! I will be certain to tell him he isn't supposed to change something he neither asked for or likes. I am certain he will find this quite amusing!

Yes, I am very clearly chastened by a superior person. As a fencer and armorer with 22 years experience, I will be certain not respond respond in the future.