02-16-2003, 12:06 AM
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#1 | | Quit (no longer with us)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 192
| Utiopian Society
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Last edited by magma; 03-21-2003 at 12:42 AM.
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|  | | And now for this message... |
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02-16-2003, 01:42 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 698
| ::slaps magma back awake:: Hey. Hey!! Welcome back to the real world!!
A. Somebody would take advantage of it.
B. You still need lower-level laborers, servicemen, etc. willing to work for less, or a society just doesn't work.
C. We ARE going to war.
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It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protestor to burn the flag. - Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC
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02-16-2003, 06:37 PM
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#3 | | Quit (no longer with us)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 192
| greetings swordsman
 wia [workforce investment act] is basically bankrupt
Last edited by magma; 03-21-2003 at 12:44 AM.
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02-16-2003, 07:06 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 698
| [SARCASM]Okay, mango. Whatever you say.[/SARCASM]
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It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protestor to burn the flag. - Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC
Last edited by Swordsman; 02-16-2003 at 10:26 PM.
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02-17-2003, 10:33 AM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 782
| Quote: Originally posted by magma
b. "lower-level" laborers. Re-educate yourself as to the role of the laborer. They're Laborers, not Low-er level laborers. So the group of people who work primarily with their hands performing jobs that are out of doors; delivery; lifting; and repairs; digging etc, should be viewed with a little more respect and consideration. They only get dirty from work, when they shower off, they look just like you and me. Don't get upset, but it's a perception that people have, that labor is don't very smart, that it's low-end. Besides, part of the plan is to include laborers into the plan for training/educational classes that they may be interested in, why? because labor is very often seasonal, low-paying, and laborers get laid off more frequently than any other group.
| You just described a facet of communism, one that envisioned a utopian society where everyone's job is equal regardless of difficulty. | |
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02-17-2003, 12:07 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 698
| Okay, let's try it this way: You're envisioning a huge organization that will teach and train a whole lot of people. This means beauracracy. Which means inefficiency, and usually corruption. Additionally, you're envisioning yourself as head of it. Power corrupts. And even if you manage to escape unscathed, who's to say it won't corrupt the next person to take your place?
I'm sure the US was a great idea when it was started; but look now: All the corruption, debt, beauracracy, and inefficiency. The only slower-moving organization in the world is the UN, and even BIGGER organization, also founded on high ideals.
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It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protestor to burn the flag. - Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC
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02-17-2003, 04:53 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Division
Posts: 2,373
| Would you like to know why we have to "waste" all of this money on the military? One word, hate.
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--}--------------
I am an exiled epeeist making the transition to sabre in order to alleviate the tediousness of fencing with a toy.
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02-17-2003, 06:50 PM
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#8 | | Quit (no longer with us)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 192
| d'art -
"On guard then"
Last edited by magma; 03-21-2003 at 12:50 AM.
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02-18-2003, 12:57 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia
Posts: 116
| Yess but the fencing it can play a big part to motivate all people to be brave and support the country in standing up to the tyrant, and the pirate, and go use that fencing skill to get strong and brave and clever and a little wound up and yeah, hey its true 
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Like, go fence , buddy.
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02-19-2003, 09:07 AM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Division
Posts: 2,373
| Mango,
Are you back in the continental states now? I just went back to fencing last night. I had fun.
Just as a general announcement, I am getting married this July. Its an exciting feeling knowing I am going to marry the girl I love. Hope everyone is doing well.
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I am an exiled epeeist making the transition to sabre in order to alleviate the tediousness of fencing with a toy.
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02-19-2003, 12:53 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 698
| Re: d'art -
Quote: Originally posted by magma
I just read what you wrote, I am amazed at this, I never thought of it, Hate! ugh! what a word, But you are right. Many people do hate others, and also fear. Fear is what prompts the formation, and then it goes right into hatred . well, that's it, that's my angst over the war. I can't believe it, though. The very people we worked so hard to understand are now
'at the gate'.
d'art, i'm sorry i missed fencing with your group recently, i only restarted fencing in november and wasn't ready to attend. Hope to see you |
"Why can't we all just get along?" is by no means a valid argument for international policy!!
Getting married - congratulations, that's awesome!!
I just broke up with my girlfriend of 13+ months...be nice to Rayen.
__________________
It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protestor to burn the flag. - Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC
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02-19-2003, 11:10 PM
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#12 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 22,901
| Bah, there's a reason why "married" rhymes with "buried"...
( Pay no attention to the grumpy confirmed bachelor, congratulations, D'Art...and---where have you been? ) | |
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02-20-2003, 11:05 PM
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#13 | | Quit (no longer with us)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 192
| i am also confirmed single, and i've really become accustomed to it and like it, i would have liked to have adoped some children, but it wasn't in the cards as they say. | |
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02-21-2003, 10:22 AM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Division
Posts: 2,373
| Inq- Just been busy. I became the boss through some very unfortunate events. My boss passed away in October. With the added responcibilities, I haven't had much free time to drop in and open my big mouth. I am getting to the point that I no longer feel I have anything new to say, having said it already. At any rate, I still enjoy my fencing family and am making an attempt to get back into the board.
Take care,
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I am an exiled epeeist making the transition to sabre in order to alleviate the tediousness of fencing with a toy.
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02-21-2003, 03:12 PM
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#15 | | Quit (no longer with us)
Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: usa
Posts: 1,307
| quelle horror,
i understand completely if you need to take a break, by all means. | |
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02-21-2003, 06:14 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 698
| Re: Utiopian Society
Quote: Originally posted by magma
There may be a chance we won't go to war! This is what I hope. All over Europe, people are marching in favor of averting a conflict. I hope it works... |
We are going to war, for better or for worse. There is no longer any averting it, unless Saddam somehow has a sudden, miraculous change of heart and sees the error of his ways - or Iraq has a sudden, miraculous change of government, and the new leader sees the error of Saddam's ways.
__________________
It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protestor to burn the flag. - Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC
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02-21-2003, 08:15 PM
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#17 | | Quit (no longer with us)
Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: usa
Posts: 1,307
| I don't know if we should say "the error his his ways" culturally speaking, the people in the middle east, don't believe they are in error. They really and truly believe they're right about things. To them, America has come to mean, busy-body, interloper, trouble-maker, problem child, pornographer, stealer of children, attacker of women. They have a point. Those people lived peacefully for hundreds of years, the Isralies were never there, they were in Diaspora, living scattered throughout the word. Many of them were in Europe, in Poland and Germany. When Hitler came to power he systematically captured and enslaved the Jewish people and killed over 6 million. In Russia, Stalin killed about 100,000 or more, in one day. The French folded and the Jews fled into Holland. England went in first to attack the Germans and then the United States joined in, then we were attacked by the Japanese, who saw what they perceived to be a 'window of opportunity'. We defended both fronts, and eventually liberated the Jews. The Jews then needed homes, so they took to boats and tried to enter into various ports. Many countries denied them entry, except for the United States. The United States brought in the Jews and gave them homes. Later on, through the United Nations, a big decision was made. What is a Jewish State? how can the Jewish people be protected? and eventually Israel was reborn. Many people from the United States went to the New Israel homeland. Friends of mine visited Kabuts and some even settled there. It was a very big undertaking and dangerous. Over the course of several decades, Israel grew to be a strong nation. Their neighbors for the most part, remained on friendly terms with the united states. But, the united states, did venture too far into the Middle East in order to foster what they considered to be 'friendship bonds'. They should have let these things happen naturally. In the long run, the people of several middle eastern nations felt that they were being corrupted by modern life; and several middle eastern nations retrenched into fundementalism, installing religious leaders, while overthrowing moderate civilian heads of state. This led to a deepening fear of the modern world. The modern world, in an effort to demonstrate to theses people that they were 'not wrong' ventured into areas best left alone; cloning, by asia, yet on american soil. Areas that are deemed sacred by most people. This is a split in the minds of people, and leads one to doubt the position of our own country. It is not so much about oil as it is about the 'rightness' of probing into areas best left alone. Yet, in spite of everything, whether or not we are correct or not, American has come under attack; the frivilous and decadent nature of America exposed. So people like Saddam Huissan, or other men like him, may only be concerned with preserving a simple way of life that they see being eroded. We can't "help' them preserve things by going over there. Just being in another country already changes the way people do things. So, for example, I really don't believe Peace Corps is a valid organization anymore. I see it as being interferring and contributes not very much. The women I came into contact with don't have nearly anything that the women in the US have. I felt very comfortable with them, because I come from a modest background. But I think the purpose was also to be able to invite the younger generations into the united states to enter into our universities. but, if they were raised to believe that americans were insane, foolish spenders and wasters of resources, and whose resources were they originally? They were native american Indian resources, and those people were descimated by General Custer a long time ago. So, what we see now is a cumulation of many actions done over a long period of time, the karmic thing if you will, coming to fruition. Let's hope that whatever happens will enable their nations to emerge the way Japan did after the war, it is now one of the strongest nations in the world, but it takes a long time. | |
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02-21-2003, 09:40 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 698
| Quote: Originally posted by 135711
I don't know if we should say "the error his his ways" culturally speaking, the people in the middle east, don't believe they are in error. They really and truly believe they're right about things. |
The problem is, they're not. They just aren't right. I'm not about to address the rest of your rant; I've long since given up on trying to respond to your posts.
You do, however, oblige us all through the alacrity with which you present yourself as a model of what is the biggest single problem with the world now: The idea that nobody is right or wrong.
We were wrong to hunt down the American Indians; we may well have been wrong to establish Israel, interfere with the pitiful ways of lives in the middle east (yes, they were at least as despicable before we went in), etc. Fine.
But they are still wrong. Maybe they don't care about oil, just want a peaceful way of life? Fine. But the way to achieve it is not by being a murderous despot. It is not by abusing, enslaving, and torturing your own citizens; it is not by using chemical weapons on your fellow countrymen. IT IS NOT BY KILLING THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
It IS the error of his ways. And they need to be fixed, by us if no one else is willing to. Sometimes, you just have to stand up for what's right. And that's what just pisses me off anymore about all the simpering, spineless, everybody's-right-let's-all-get-along cowards who are afraid to judge lest they be judged, let alone do something about it!! They are all over and always have been, but now they are taking control!! And you know what? The whole world's going to hell for it. Thank GOD we've still got some leaders like Bush, Blair, the Italians' president, and hopefully others I just don't know about, to keep things from going too far too fast!!
__________________
It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protestor to burn the flag. - Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC
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02-21-2003, 11:01 PM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 698
| Mango, what the hell does any of that have to do with anything on this thread?
__________________
It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protestor to burn the flag. - Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC
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02-21-2003, 11:27 PM
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#20 | | Quit (no longer with us)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 192
| Magma started this thread
 I'm not a mango. | |
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