Scoring Machine Schematics?

[Mulligan]

Someone else started a thread called "fencing box diagrams" inquiring about schematics to build a scoring machine.

I have also wondered if there are schematics available for this purpose, and i thought this thread title might draw more responses.

Anyone have any good project plans for something like this? It seems that the available machines are stupidly expensive.

[Craig]

I haven't seen any schematics but if you go to www.fie.ch and download the rules, all of the requirements for a fencing machine are there. Take those requirements and use that to make your own schematics.

One of the main reasons why machines are expensive is the size (or lack thereof) of the available market. Those companies have to make a couple of bucks after all their costs.

Cheers,
Craig

[DHCJr]

Craig, made a good point in checking the rules, a schematic for a modern box would be of little use. Let me give you an example. Blue Sky will giving out the (physical) schematics when they build their next generation box to a number of the top Armorers in the country. If you were to obtain that diagram and you had the skill you would be able to repair the box, but you would not be able to build your own from it. The reason is modern boxes are programmed, not built. They will not be giving out the program. This has one big advantage, when rules are changed, the fix is take out one chip and put in the upgraded (program) chip.

They will be given out the schematics, so they can be repaired. Getting the diagrams for older boxes is possible, but why, they don't conform to the current rules.

[darius]

I'm fairly ignorant of electrical engineering, but doesn't it stand to reason that if you have the physical schematics, all you have to do is find an appropriate microcontroller that can trigger events X and Y, and then program it to behave appropriately?

Granted, that's easier said than done -- I like my high level languages.

darius

[DJ Apostrophe]

ahh yes.. but when one of those pieces is a "black box" PIC, and you dont know the innards of the PIC, you'll have to reverse engineer it... which may take more energy then designing your own. Sure, you know what the box has to do, and what the end results are, but without knowing the program inside its tough to figure out how the box does it. It is possible, but it would take considerably more effort then its probably worth. (Though it would be a fun project)
-w

[DHCJr]

Originally posted by darius
I'm fairly ignorant of electrical engineering, but doesn't it stand to reason that if you have the physical schematics, all you have to do is find an appropriate microcontroller that can trigger events X and Y, and then program it to behave appropriately?

Granted, that's easier said than done -- I like my high level languages.

darius

Yes that is all you have to do, plus also events, Z, A, B, C and Z if A, and Z if A, but not C, etc., etc. etc.

The hardware is easy, the software is the key to the modern boxes.

[JEC]

Originally posted by DHCJr
The hardware is easy, the software is the key to the modern boxes.

which means that they should be cheaper too.

[DHCJr]

Yes and no. If you want the box certified for a single competition and that is the only way the FIE does it. They do not certify for a season or whatever. The boxes are certified for one competition only. You must send in, I'm not sure if it is 1,2 or 3 boxes into the FIE to be certified. Especially at the Olympics, but also for the Worlds the machines are DONATED. Also they are required to have AT LEAST twice the number as they have strips. Sometimes they take the machines back, but they can not sell them as new. In other words they take a loss. Guess who pays for the loss. This is one reason the St George, Uhlmann, etc. are so expensive.

There are some U.S. machines that meet or exceed the FIE specifications that are cheaper, but the problem there is quantity. For example, depending on the number of boxes you buy, Eigertech and Blue Sky can be as low as $300 each. They do not make enough to get large discounts for the parts.

[I see dead people]

I have thought about building my own box. But the problem is that it's probably cheaper to buy one.

150 bucks for a FPGA chip and programmer.
150 bucks for analog components(eg power converter etc)
That's like 300 dollars already, enough to buy a brand-new well-made scoring box, without all the hard work.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Well, were I live, a one-weapon box supporting epee only would find a sizeable market - if it were noticeably cheaper than a 2- or 3-weapon box.

For non-international competitions, I have not seen boxes beeing checked for rules compliance. Given this, and the relative simplicity of epee scoring rules (compared to ROW weapons), such a box should be reasonably easy to put together for a electical engineering student.

BTW: From what I read here, there seems to be much more checking of equipment for rules compliance in the USA than over here. For epee in non-international comps, I have never seen mask durability checked, blade curvature only once, and tip spring strength/travel distance being the only two that are checked often. Maybe has something to do with the fact that USA litigation culture is more active than in all other countries put together.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson