fencing box diagram

[MSUFENCER]

Ok a while back some one said they were working on a fencing box diagram. How is that coming along? Is there any other sites out there with how to make them,

Charlie

[DHCJr]

Could you be a little more specific. Was this a fencing scoring box, a simple 2 light test box, a switch and plug adapter for a Ohm meter or a multi-function test box?

[JEC]

A few months ago, a member of the board indicated that she/he was working on the finishing details of a relatively simple scoring box, and was planning to post the diagram of the box. However, it would be nice if you (DHCJr) would like to post diagrams of any of those circuits.

The easiest adaptor consists an extension unit from an ohmeter to test for continuity of each line for epee bodycords.

["Fence like a Cat"]

I've acquired a couple of different schematics and would make them available but I cannot attest to their validity. According rec.sport.fencing there is a schematic at http://lcbdindy.fys.kuleuven.ac.be/fencing/fencing.html
but it wasn't accessible tonight.
Marty

[Sud]

That someone was me, and oh, how fast a few months fly by

The 'finalised' PCB layout is at home waiting for me to etch, populate and test it. Then it's a matter of writing some documents for it and after that you'll see a post with all of the info.

So many projects, so little time...

Sud

[oiuyt]

Originally posted by "Fence like a Cat"
I've acquired a couple of different schematics and would make them available but I cannot attest to their validity. According rec.sport.fencing there is a schematic at http://lcbdindy.fys.kuleuven.ac.be/fencing/fencing.html
but it wasn't accessible tonight.
Marty

I would just PM you on this, but that doesn't seem to be an available option. I'd be very willing to see any schematics that you have, valid or not (I'll try to figure it out before building). The kuleuven link has been passed around for a while now but I've never seen it actually working. I suspect that the page went down 1-2 years ago and the URL still gets passed to people looking for it.

DHCJr- I'd be interested in either the switch and plug adaptor or the multi-function test box. Knowing the level of armorer that you are I assume you built your own at some point, if you still have plans available I'd love to see them.

-B :)

[Dave]

means that the page whilst dead, has however been logged and saved by the wayback machine. Just copy and paste the link into here http://www.archive.org/

[JEC]

The link was archived, but the diagram of the box is not available.

[DHCJr]

Originally posted by JEC
A few months ago, a member of the board indicated that she/he was working on the finishing details of a relatively simple scoring box, and was planning to post the diagram of the box. However, it would be nice if you (DHCJr) would like to post diagrams of any of those circuits.

I've never been able to do anything with Visio or any of the other CAD designs. I will draw up a few this weekend and scan them in. I will do the simple two light box, the meter adaptor and if I can find it the simplest of Dan’s Universal Testers.

[JEC]

Thanks, Don. If you draw it in a piece of paper, it can easily be scanned into a PDF or JPG file. If need help, you could fax the diagram. Contact me via PM or email.
JEC

[DHCJr]

I will have no problem scanning it as the job that pays the bills is (mini)computers, either programming or systems. It is my artistic talent (or lack of) that is the problem. A five year old would be ashamed of my stick figures.

[DHCJr]

Enclosed is the first of the test box diagrams I promised. This is the basic 2-light with ground. It uses incandescent lights. A LED box is a little more complicated as you need to add resisters, but it does draw less current. The batteries will last longer. The disadvantage is an LED box test if a weapon is not working, not if it is working. What I mean by this, if you have a weapon or body cord with several hundred ohms resistance the LED’s will be bright, but it may not work when you hook up. The ground is just a bolt that is put through the box and connected to the B line. How you use this is touch your Epee Bell Guard to the bolt and the Foil light should come on. Touch the clip of your Foil/Sabre body cord clip to the bolt and the Epee Light should light up. Traditionally the Epee light is Green and the Foil/Epee Short light is Red. If you want to use different colors there are no rules that says you can’t. But do label the box so you can tell.

This weekend was hectic. I hope to have the body cord meter adapter drawn by the end of this week.

[DHCJr]

I forgot to describe an even simpler tester to make. Take an Epee guard connector and from an electronic store a 9-volt battery, battery connector, and two of the little lights with wires connected. Remove the piece that connects the C-line to the bracket and connect it to the B-line. Attach one wire from one light to the A-line and the other light to the C-line. Join the other wire from each light to one of the wires from the battery connector. Connect the other line from the battery connector to the B-line. You now have a tester. You can use tape to hold it together.

[DHCJr]

I’m sorry this took so long. There are two ways to create the Ohmmeter adapter. Both uses a 6-position, 3 pole switch. The only difference is the order of the positions. The first, which is attached, I will call the ‘Lazy-Man Approach’, because it is set up so that all the ‘Good’ body cord positions are on the first 3 and the ‘Weapon’ and ‘Bad’ positions are on the last 3 positions. The second or ‘Logical Approach’ forces you to do a thorough job when testing body cords. Both approaches are used, so your choice is what you would work best for you. You can modify this by just moving the connections. The order of the two approaches is

1) A-A, B-B, C-C, C-A, B-C, A-B
2) A-A, A-B, B-B, B-C, C-C, C-A

A-A) ‘A’ line of the body cord, Sabre mask clip and Epee tip test
B-B) ‘B’ line of the body cord
C-C) ‘C’ line of the body cord
C-A) ‘C/A’ body cord short, Ground of Epee and Foil tip test
B-C) ‘B/C’ body cord short, Epee Short and Foil/Sabre test
A-B) ‘A/B body cord short, Epee test

What I mean by the tip test is to press the tip against the body cord clip bolt. With a working Epee press down all the way down and the switch is in A-A position the meter should move. For Foil, just touch the bolt (Do not press down) and the meter should move.

Because of my poor drawing ability, I will also describe where I connect to each position. In the drawing the connectors on the left are the ‘Weapon/Common’ side and on the right the ‘Body Cord’ side. I do not show Foil as all you do is connect directly the ‘C’ line of the Foil to the ‘C’ line on the body cord side and the ‘B’ line to the ‘B’ line on the body cord side. You can connect as many different types of body cords in this way. There should be a post/bolt connected to each of the ‘A’ lines.

Position Pole 1(Common) Pole 2(Body Cord) Pole 3(Shorts)
A-A Weapon ‘A’ line Body Cord ‘A’ line
B-B Weapon ‘B’ line Body Cord ‘B’ line
C-C Weapon ‘C’ line Body Cord ‘C’ line
C-A Weapon ‘C’ line Body Cord ‘A’ line Weapon ‘A’ Line
B-C Weapon ‘B’ line Body Cord ‘C’ line Weapon ‘C’ Line
A-B Weapon ‘A’ line Body Cord ‘B’ line Weapon ‘B’ Line

[pkt]

DHC Jr,

Thank you for your contribution to the advancement of knowledge.

I know nothing about what you wrote in the last 3 posts....

I'm an electrical dummy.

I did however make a simple, poor-man continuity tester by myself :
1. buy a electrical outlet tester.
2. cut one of the wires
3. stick a battery in between the cut ends of the wire. I use a 9-volt battery.
That's all. I soldered a couple of alligator clips to the end of the wires so I can clip the wires on the guard of a foil and the other wire to the point wire to test the weight of the point. I can also look for breaks in the body chord.

Then the incandescent bulb died. I replaced the bulb with an LCD which neccesitate the placement of a resistor...

PK

[DHCJr]

You are not a complete electrical dummy. You knew you needed a resister when you used the LED.

The second post I did is for those who are complete electrical dummies. You don't need a drill, resisters, soldering iron or much of anything else. The lights and battery connector already have the ends stripped. Just twist them together, like it says above and wrap the twist in tape. Place the appropriate wire on an Epee connector and snap in the battery. Moving the ground connection is not necessary. It just allows you to add a few extra tests.

Your way works well. Test boxes for Armorers are personal. As I said in the above, there are those who set it up one way and some the other and these are our top Armorers. I just ordered a Behringer CT100, which like you I am going to modify into a test box for fencing.

As Dan is fond of saying, he learns something new at every tournament. Keep learning.

[DangerMouse]

Does Dan's Universal Tester that you mentioned use multi-meters? If not, does it take into account the legal resistance of body cords and weapons? I ask because I've just started an LED based design that takes into account if a weapon/body cord works with the legal amount of resistance and if you are planning to post one of his circuits, I can stop putting hours into my design

[DHCJr]

Considering the limitations of the size of what can be posted, I wouldn't be able post it here. Dan used incadesant lamps for the 'Good' lights. This series of boxes were first designed back in the late 70's, early 80's, when there was no resistence rules. But it was designed to go dead at between 5 and 10 ohms. Working with LED and getting them to go out at 1 or 2 ohms is very good. You need to set up a comparitor. He also used some hard to get and right now impossible to get items. He used a 3-position 20 pole slide switch and 3 4.5 Mecury batteries. There are some Alkaline batteries that are 'Equivalent', but because of how the electrical properties of the discharge of the Mecury and Alkaline, they are not as accurate now and the batteries, do not last as long. I put the design away somewhere, if I find it, I will contact Craig and see if there is someway to post this somewhere.

Dan has created some boxes to use external meters and some with internal meters. Because of the difference is the resistence rules, between weapon and body cord, going with meters is probably a better option now.

[oiuyt]

For that matter Dan's included an anti-theft alarm system (with TWO settings, one of which has the box screaming for assistance). Too much time on his hands a bit of leftover space in the project box.... :)

-B :)

[DangerMouse]

Umm... now I feel stupid, but I couldn't find resistance rules in the USFA book. They say that resistance rules are below in one section, but then they aren't.

Does anyone know the exact rules and are they likely to change?

Thanks