Best Fencing Colleges

[brtech]

One thing not mentioned so far is the difference between a club that fences in individual event tournaments, and one that fences in primarily team tournaments. The NCAA events are team tournaments. There is quite a bit of difference between fencing on a team and fencing as an individual. There is no "better", they are just different.

To fence in a team, you need to have a team attitude. You also have to deal with the fact that at least for one team against another, there are only three fencers (per weapon per gender). In individual tournaments, everyone can enter, everyone gets pool bouts, and at least in most local tournaments, at least one DE. In team events, you get three fencers. Often teams go to multi-team events, and they can (and usually do) change some of the fencers for each opponent.

Like any other fencing arrangement, coaches make the most difference. Good coaches produce winning teams, which attract good fencers, ... Any form of college team or club is heavily influenced by the quality of the coaching. If fencing is important to you in your college selection, then you have to meet the coach and start developing a relationship.

Finally, if you are a good fencer, it can help you get into a better college. Getting the coach to help you with admissions can make your application stand out against the thousands of others who are otherwise "qualified" to get in but is not otherwise spectacular. Generally, if a coach puts you on his list, and works the system, your odds of getting an admission offer go substantially higher. It won't get you in if your grades, SATs or essays aren't up to snuff, but it helps, a lot.

[leftyboy]

In my situation, I could go almost anywhere I want. Ivy League is a stretch (I couldn't break 1400 on the SATs, just short), so they (and any other high-end schools) are out of the question. But I want to fence. Seriously. Where I am right now, we have a varsity team. We've had it since my freshman year. It sucks. Period. It's not serious. Until this year, absolutely nothing resembling athleticism was a part of the team. It is the Island of Misfit Toys. Can't do anything else? Try fencing, no cuts. We have no successes. Maybe me, but I have this problem where I never win anything.

I would like to go somewhere with a serious program. But I'm not good enough. I could go to UPenn and never fence. I have my C, but I've never done anything with it. Would Penn help me? Who knows. I could go to Sacred Heart and fence and do wonderful things. But am I short-changing my education? Who knows?

What am I supposed to do?

(Side note -- Be honest, if they started a new thread you would have complained that there was already a thread and to look it up. )

[Cookeit]

Originally Posted by leftyboy

I would like to go somewhere with a serious program. But I'm not good enough. I could go to UPenn and never fence. I have my C, but I've never done anything with it. Would Penn help me? Who knows. I could go to Sacred Heart and fence and do wonderful things. But am I short-changing my education? Who knows?

What am I supposed to do?

(Side note -- Be honest, if they started a new thread you would have complained that there was already a thread and to look it up. )

I would suggest UPenn. Just because you aren't on the traveling team doesn't mean you don't get to train with the really good fencers and coaches.

At least thats how it is at OSU.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

There are two ways you can do this: You can pick a school for the fencing, and only for the fencing, or you can pick a school for the academics, and the housing, and the dining, and the fencing, and the campus, and the way it feels when you visit.....etc.

All the people I can think of off the top of my head who picked schools almost entirely for the fencing transfered out, stopped fencing, or both.

I picked Smith because I felt at home immediately. The fencing team isn't the best in the world, and I could certainly be learning more other places, but I spend much more of my time in classes, dining halls, dorms, etc, than I do fencing.

Fencing will be a part of the equation. It can't be the equation.

[mlr2fence]

Are you planning on fencing as a career? If not, then select a college because thats where you want to go to prepare for your career. Look beyond fencing schools. Maybe there is a school in a city with a strong private club that would be a win-win as far as academics and fencing. Just remember that in any sport an athlete is just that one injury away from having to sit on the sidelines; while the education that goes in the brain is yours to keep.

[bigdawg2121]

Originally Posted by Cookeit

I would suggest UPenn. Just because you aren't on the traveling team doesn't mean you don't get to train with the really good fencers and coaches.

At least thats how it is at OSU.

I want to say that UPenn doesn't really train together as a team all that often. This may have changed as I haven't thought to discuss in past 6mo-1yr or so but it's probably still true. That being said, I'm mostly with everyone that says pick your school and then fence. Or if you're really intent on picking a fencing school just pick one. By and large they all have strong academic reputations. Even a "bad" fencing school academically is usually a good school by most people's standards. Just make sure you start early and you talk to the coaches early. As much as it sucks, if you're trying to go out-of-state with no help and less than a 1400 you might need a little push.

[brtech]

I've been through this with one daughter, and we're in the middle of it now with another.

It's a fact that 17 yr old kids can't reasonably pick a college based on academics. There is no way for them, even with help, to do that.

The problem is that there are too many colleges with academics at any given level, and the differences between them are small. Unless the kid in question has a definite major in mind, and it's an unusual one, there is likely to be 10-30 colleges with roughly the same academics.

A lot of kids, too many I think, end up choosing a college based on the attractiveness of the campus. Laugh all you want, it happens, a lot.

Fencing is a differentiator. It's a way to choose. If you have 7 or 8 good choices and two of them have great fencing programs and the other 5 or 6 don't, it's a way to whittle down the choices.

It's appropriate to make such a choice if the academics, and other things that matter, are the same. For a good fencer, the fencing program is likely to be the number two time consumer (number 1 being academics).

My kiddo is probably good enough to get into an Ivy, but probably only if a coach wants her enough to work for her. She has the grades and the SAT scores and the recommendations, but so do 8,000 others.

You can ask: which Ivy? She is "proudly undecided", so no help there. Would you care to get into an argument about which Ivy has the best academics for an undergraduate with an undecided major? You can't. They are ALL great, and the differences are so small that you can't use academics to choose. They all happen to have fencing programs, and it IS possible for my daughter to get a pretty good idea of which team and which coach suit her better than another. It's a differentiator.

It's not the only one, by far. In fact, her first choice school is not her first choice fencing program. However, her internal ranking has fencing as one of the inputs.

But the Ivies are only a maybe, because there are SO many good applicants. The process is a crap shoot. So, she has other applications in. When you go one notch down from Ivy's, you have at least 20, maybe 40 colleges with roughly the same academics. Here, for her, fencing is a big differentiator. She can eliminate any that don't have a fencing program and still have maybe 10 left. For her, the fencing program itself enters more strongly into her internal rankings than it does in the Ivies.

And, of course, admission to these schools is also not a certainty for her, and the coach being willing to work for her is a plus.

So I think it's very legitimate to consider the fencing program in a college when making a choice. It surely ought not to be the major factor, but other things important to the student roughly equal, the fencing program should matter.

Finally, will say that academics do matter, a lot. I've hired a heck of a lot of engineers, for example, and I can tell you, for certain, that the quality of the college academics makes a huge difference in the ability of the engineer. Some of that is obvious: good schools get good students to begin with. However, I can see the differences between the approach to teaching and it makes a big difference in the skills of the graduates. So if you really do have the choice between a great school with a poor fencing program and a mediocre school with a great fencing program, take the great school and make the best of the fencing opportunities you find.

[C.I.C.]

Originally Posted by brtech

...which Ivy has the best academics for an undergraduate with an undecided major?...They are ALL great, and the differences are so small that you can't use academics to choose.

Not entirely true. If you investigate the available information, you'll find that the institution-wide commitment to undergraduates varies between the ivys.
Some schools allocate a greater percentage of their resources to their graduate students and programs than others, resulting in a higher quality for those graduate programs, with a corresponding diminishment their undergraduate programs. Both programs are still excellent within an institution, but there are identifiable differences between the institutions.

[fencerbill]

Caveat: Penn Grad

My impression is that at almost every school there are individuals and departments that are excellent. The difference at a school like the Ivies and others is that every, or almost every department will be excellent. Worthwhile for someone who is undecided.

Perusal of my Penn alumni publications leads me to think that Penn is a leader in tailored majors and in fact has had for many years programs which lead to simultaneous degrees, such as a business degree from Wharton and an Engineering degree. This is not to say that other schools don't do the same. Or that fencers will have time for dual degrees.

The comment that the fencing team at Penn doesn't always train together is probably due to the minuscule fencing room. The last time I was there, it was the same as when I started fencing there in 1953.

Go to Penn for the school, for the fencing program, and for the coaches, don't go there for the fencing room. The area where they have dual meets is fine, but, unless things have changed very recently, that is not where they practice. One counteracting advantage is that both the fencing room and the place where meets are held are about 2 blocks from the student union, the center of the classroom buildings. Not seemingly miles from everything.

Penn, from the time I started, has had a philosophy that many beginning classes are taught by senior full professors. I had one for introductory Anthropology who almost lured me to Anthro for a major.

My Chemistry 1 class was so organized that everything was covered in the lectures. The material was perfectly organized and outlined on the dual blackboards. If you understood everything that was put up there, the textbook was just for further understanding. As the professor finished filling the second blackboard, the assistant erased the first. And every lecture was perfectly timed to finish with a demonstration that included a loud noise at exactly ten minutes to the hour.

While I was there the University president was Gaylord Probosco Harnwell, the author of a, at that time, prominent specialty physics book. He also taught Physics for Nurses, which did not include a single equation.

[Phincer]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

.
Go to Penn for the school, for the fencing program, and for the coaches, don't go there for the fencing room.

Shiny + Pretty = Duke.

[mytouch2003]

hands down best fencing facilities in the country (in reference to pretty+shiny=duke)

[leftyboy]

I want to pursue my education to the graduate level. This influences my decision. I could be in an honors program and do well, and show I took the extra step. I could just graduate out of an Ivy League School. Which is better? How can I know?

Also, I think fencing can help me in my academics. The busier I am, the better I manage time. If I ride pine somewhere, I'd get disillusioned with my prospects and take practice less seriously. Or, I could fight for a spot and put tremendous effort into practice.

[sleepyweasle]

LP Lexan Sabre mask...400$

round trip ticket to Budapest and Gremany for Junior World Cups...1000$

Being offered ~100,000$ scholarship (over 4 years) to one of the best universities in the country (Div 1, Big 10)...priceless.

TURNING DOWN $100,000 in scholarship money to attend local Ivy (where ya get NUTHIN!) because "I can still train with my coach at my club"...AAAAAAIIIIEEEIIIIIIIIIII

But seriously, My kid made her decision for valid academic reasons (she loves the intimate small college feel with concentrations in her areas of interest within the Ivy University) as well as for the strong fencing team and proximity to her current club/coach. I actually feel this will be the best place for her for the next 4 years and so am willing to continue to make the necessary sacrifices. And she's just a train ride away!!!

Life is filled with compromise - you have to pick what will hopefully be the best fit for you all around - not in just one small area.

[fencerbill]

Don't discount the benefits of a train ride away. Our daughter attended Brandeis, about 20 miles away. We wouldn't see her for a couple of weeks at a time but she could come home for birthdays, etc.

[journalmom]

Originally Posted by sleepyweasle

But seriously, My kid made her decision for valid academic reasons (she loves the intimate small college feel with concentrations in her areas of interest within the Ivy University)

Which school is this, if you don't mind me asking.

[sleepyweasle]

Originally Posted by journalmom

Which school is this, if you don't mind me asking.

Barnard College/Columbia University.

[Soberin]

Originally Posted by sleepyweasle

Barnard College/Columbia University.

This is actually the best of all worlds for this fortunate fencer/student, as the academics at Columbia are superb, and the fencing level (which obviously varies year by year) is traditionally just a smidge below the nations best--Penn State, Ohio State, and Notre Dame.

[sleepyweasle]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

Don't discount the benefits of a train ride away. Our daughter attended Brandeis, about 20 miles away. We wouldn't see her for a couple of weeks at a time but she could come home for birthdays, etc.

Believe me, I'm not! One of the biggest selling points was when my daughter turned to me while we were on the campus tour and said,"Just think, if I go here you and Daddy can come into the city on Sundays and take me to Brunch!"

[lewis]

I just wanted to add that it is very important to figure out what you want from your college fencing. Notre dame gives money but this past season notre dame would not let 2 of its sabre fencers go to a world cup in spain over a dual college meet. At the time the 2 fencers were 2 and 3 for junior world team. They ended up getting passed by 2 fencers whose college coaches allowed them to skip a college meet and go to the world cup instead. The sad thing is, they were not getting athletic scholarships......and apparently neither one is going to be chosen as the alternate even tho they are within 50 points of the 3rd fencer on the team points list. I think this is an important consideration for the elite fencer.

I also know that Princeton threw off one of its starting fencers because he asked to be excused for 2 days of the 2 times per day practice that led up to the ivy championships - that 2x per day practice (2 horus each) was during the finals week. Princeton is a div I school but there is no athletic scholarship and Princeton is not a powerhouse in the ivies currently....

[Agent_V]

Originally Posted by lewis

...
I also know that Princeton threw off one of its starting fencers because he asked to be excused for 2 days of the 2 times per day practice that led up to the ivy championships - that 2x per day practice (2 horus each) was during the finals week....

Those practices were NOT held during the midst of finals - they were during intercession (the break after finals and before the subsequent term). Quite a different beast. Nonetheless, I find this removal of my former teammate appalling.