Foil point threading

[Dav3ey]

I know that the threading on the tang of a foil can be different, but is there a difference between the threading used to mount the point based on the country of manufacture?

Specifically, can I mount a "SchermaSport" screwless point (Italian?) onto a Leon Paul (English) blade?

This stems from a tip screw debacle on the strip after which I promised myself to look into screwless tips -- however, they're not cheap and I would really have think twice if I would have to look for a different blade.

As an aside, if anyone has had any experience with the screwless tips -- positive or (more importantly) negative -- I'd really appreciate that, too.

Thanks all!

[Gav]

These are Epee tips that we're talking about isn't it? I've never tried screless tips but I know that LP do make them. So giva LP a call, their blades are all standard and therefore a LP screwless should fit.

[DHCJr]

There are two sizes for threading on the tip. Foil (M.12.4) 3.5 x 0.60 and Epee (M.20.4) 4.0 x 0.70. So a Foil tip should be able to go on any Foil blade and the same for Epee. One Warning, there is nothing in the rules about number of threads. If the tip you are using is short and only allows for a few threads you may have to shorten it a little.

As far as screwless tips go, the one key is make sure they are tight. I would check them after every bout.

[Dav3ey]

That's great DHCJr -- just what I was wondering. Intuitive too, since I suppose whenever I have bought points I've always been asked "French or German" but never "English thread or Italian".

Gav -- the specific point I was looking at is made for both foil and epee and is found (among other places, I'm sure) at the Negrini site:

http://www.negrini.com/Ert198SSV.htm

http://www.negrini.com/Er187SSV.htm

Expensive, but if I can trade fencing with a jeweler's screwdriver in my pocket for checking tip tightness once after each bout, I'll take it.

[sallearmourer]

The major problem of mounting it on a leon paul blade is you have to widened the grove to accept the italian wire. The italian foil wire is hefty compare to the english, french and german wires. My daughter as one on a leon paul blade. Outside of the grove on the blade it's works fine. Went right on the tip of the blade with no problems. American Fencers carrys them. I keep spare wires on hand for them and the epee wires as well. But at 10.00 a wire it's not cheap.


Tim Loomis
Ye Olde Armourer an Idaho Company

[Dav3ey]

Ahhhhhhh ... I just KNEW it was too good to be true!

Thanks for the heads up, sallearmourer -- that's exactly the kind of thing that irks me terribly.

Can one just use a small metal file to widen the groove at the blade tip?
I would have to buy something to get in there -- is there a particular tool that would work well in that tight spot?

Otherwise, sallearmourer, since your daughter has (I presume successful) experience with this combination, I'm guessing that there's no problem getting this hefty wire into the rest of the blade groove. Am I wrong?

Thanks much,
Dav3ey

[sallearmourer]

The whole blade needs to be widened for it to narrows . Else the wire will not fit in the grove of the blade and it will stick up.

need a dermal tool to do it with.

Tim

[oiuyt]

*cough* Check the rules *cough*

m.1 There are three types of weapon: foil, épée and saber.
All weapons are authorized providing only that they conform to these regulations and to the safety standards which are appended.
The weapon should be so constructed that it cannot normally injure either the user or the opponent. All methods of treating a blade between the guard and the tip (button), by grinding, filing or other methods, are forbidden.
Sharpening the edges or angles of the point is forbidden.

(emphasis mine)

-B :)

[sallearmourer]

After 30 years of armoury I know exactly what the rules are. But I was explaining how to do what he what done. Therefore everytime you use a deraml to clean out the grove of a blade with a broken wire you are in violate of the rule. The italian wire is just so much beefer than a stranded wire. I have one my kids break a epee blade wire with a italian tip and I just strip out wire then carefully remove the barrel and wire it on another blade. I have seen blades come from about every forge that some of the blades the grove wasn't deep enough to protect any wire you put in.


Tim

[Dav3ey]

Sallearmourer -- when you say a "dermal tool", what exactly is that? Something a skin doctor uses? I'd like to have an idea of what the work entails before I hop out to stock up on new additions to my tool box.

oiuyt -- At first glance, your reference to the rule of no treatment of the blade seems to include this groove work. But they can't really mean the rule to include everything that their phrasing covers.

After all, that would mean no taking off sharp burrs that could be dangerous (common in sabre), no wiping on a bit of oil to prevent rust in moist climates, and even no wiping off rust itself. These are all things that I'm sure they don't intend to exclude, but they do fall under the letter of the rule.

Maybe they mean to exclude "treatments" that make equipment work in a way at odds with the spirit of the rules?

[DJ Apostrophe]

dermal - dremel

you know... the tools that have 8 million different attatchments...
see: http://www.dremel.com/productdisplay...5&Color=99CCFF


you can get all kinds of cutting / grinding wheels for them...
-w

[Mergs]

you know... the tools that have 8 million different attatchments...

I thought there were only 7,999,998! You mean there are two new ones!!!!!!! Woooohoooo! Where do I get them????!!!???

[DJ Apostrophe]

last tuesday they introduced the ear wax remover and (my personal favorite) the automatic shoe tying thingy...

whats not to love?

[oiuyt]

Originally posted by Dav3ey

oiuyt -- At first glance, your reference to the rule of no treatment of the blade seems to include this groove work. But they can't really mean the rule to include everything that their phrasing covers.

They may not mean it to include everything covered, but this (grinding which changes the shape, therefore strength and behavior of the blade (and likely the longevity)) is something which I WOULD assume was intended to be covered.

I have no problem with you explaining HOW to do what he wanted to do, I just thought he should also know what rules he would be breaking IF he chose to do what he wanted to do. I'll even stipulate that you were knowingly telling him how to do something against the rules. Personally I feel that when telling someone to break the rules one should also make sure that THEY know the implications of following the advice.

-B :)

[Dav3ey]

Thanks to all who helped here!

oiuyt -- I think I'm going to have to agree with you on this one, rules-wise -- I didn't realize how much of a total groove overhaul this was going to involve.

I'm very glad to know how to go about this if I decide to in the future, so many thanks to all. Even if I don't end up digging out the back of my LP, I might get a Dremel all the same -- it looks pretty useful for taking burrs of sabres, buffing off rust, etc.

Opa.

[Dav3ey]

It seems that besides Negrini, Estoc makes a screwless that's available at Swordmasters for about the same price as a regular German point ($20).

But crypticly, they don't seem to include a wire or make clear what kind of wire it works with.

Now the name Estoc doesn't seem Italian, so I would suppose it would be designed to take a French or German wire -- thus solving my problem of going screwless with my LP blade.

Might anyone (i) know which wire the Estoc screwless uses or (ii) have any experience with Estoc parts in general or Estoc points in particular?