NAC D - Detroit, MI March 2011

[SEMIFencer]

The officers of the Michigan Division would like to welcome all fencers to Detroit for the NAC D in March. We've put together a website with some basic local information on the area. http://detroitnac.michfencing.net/

We've listed a few of the attractions around the area, but it is far from extensive. For Hockey fans, the Detroit Redwings are playing a home game on Friday, March 11th. Joe Louis Area is next to Cobo Hall.

For those of you flying in, the airport you most likely want to use is Detroit Metro, Airport Code DTW. It's about a 25 to 45 minute (depending on traffic) drive to downtown.

If you are driving, downtown Detroit is about 4.5 hours from Cincinnati and about 5.5 hours from Chicago.

If you are looking at hotels that are not downtown, consider Dearborn. It's a decent neighbor with easy access and rates can be cheaper.

You may want to consider renting a car if you are planning on doing much outside of the downtown area. Detroit has some public transit, but it's definitely not what you've seen in other cities. Metro Detroit is a sprawl, and in the Motor City, the car is king.

Weather in Michigan during March can vary, a lot. Be prepared for snow or sunny and 50 degrees. Checking noaa.gov a few days beforehand will give you a reasonable expectation of what we are getting that weekend.

Consider bringing your passport. Downtown Detroit is on the Detroit River which is the border between the US and Canada. Our neighbor to the east is easy to get to by car. There is both the Ambassador Bridge or the Detroit Windsor Tunnel.

Hopefully this answers some of the common questions that fencers have before going to a new location for an event. If you have any other question, we'll be watching this thread, or e-mail us directly at nac2011@michfencing.net.

We look forward to seeing you in March.

[Peach]

Awesome! Nice site, good links.

[wakeup]

So is the Henry Ford Museum worth the trip when Greenfield Village is closed? (It's probably been 40 years since I visited as a kid, but what I remember is the Village!)

[SEMIFencer]

So is the Henry Ford Museum worth the trip when Greenfield Village is closed? (It's probably been 40 years since I visited as a kid, but what I remember is the Village!)

I'd say yes. I was there a couple weeks back for the first time in a while and it was pretty neat. They've got some really impressive displays. The transportation through time was good, various bikes and cars from the 1800's through recent. I'm hoping to get back there sometime soon, I didn't have a chance to see it all.

[SEMIFencer]

The LOC has organized a Directors Clinic the weekend before the NAC. They have just sent us an update: All participants will be granted walk-on status at the Detroit NAC pending passing scores on the test.

If you are in the near-local area and interested in this, it's listed on AskFred.Net. http://askfred.net/Clinics/moreInfo.php?clinic_id=14120

[Inquartata]

What does "walk on status" mean?

[MBalderson]

Sounds like they are going to let all the ones who pass have the great honor of coming into the venue to make movies with their new Director certifications.

...

Walk-ons are refs who tend to live local to the event that simply show up day of to work and don't get reimbursed for travel, etc but who still can get their honorarium.

[SEMIFencer]

I confirmed with the LOC, walk-ons will get paid for the day of work, but no travel expenses. A good deal for anyone local that wants to get observed by someone from the national group and possibly get their ratings increased.

[hello?]

The LOC has organized a Directors Clinic the weekend before the NAC. They have just sent us an update: All participants will be granted walk-on status at the Detroit NAC pending passing scores on the test.

If you are in the near-local area and interested in this, it's listed on AskFred.Net. http://askfred.net/Clinics/moreInfo.php?clinic_id=14120

Mhm...I don't think I have ever heard of refs who JUST did the clinic (and I guess passed the test) reffing at a NAC! Usually, refs start at local tournaments and move their way up, as they gain more experience. I would certianly hope the LOC reconsiders this. (I do NOT expect first-time refs after having paid NAC fees.) Bad idea.

[hello?]

I confirmed with the LOC, walk-ons will get paid for the day of work, but no travel expenses. A good deal for anyone local that wants to get observed by someone from the national group and possibly get their ratings increased.

NOT a good deal for the fencers.

[Inquartata]

Yeah, that was my fear as well: We get a bunch of brand new refs being observed presiding over us. Always so nice to have a critical bout decided by a novice.

[catwood1]

Yeah, that was my fear as well: We get a bunch of brand new refs being observed presiding over us. Always so nice to have a critical bout decided by a novice.

Any truely critical bout probably wouldn't be assigned to a newbie ref. That said, the idea of using a NAC as a way to test out the people that are just fresh out of the exam seems like a poor choice. What ever happened to cutting your teeth at a local event?

[swordwench]

Wow. Just... wow. Do not like. I reffed *really* regularly for two years at local events (USFA, college, high school) before I felt I was anywhere near worthy enough to ref a NAC. And I was *still* scared out of my mind that first time, and had a boatload to learn. Walk-on status for more experienced referees looking to up their ratings, sure - but newly-minted ones? Noooooooo.

[hello?]

Any truely critical bout probably wouldn't be assigned to a newbie ref. That said, the idea of using a NAC as a way to test out the people that are just fresh out of the exam seems like a poor choice. What ever happened to cutting your teeth at a local event?

The idea of someone deciding what a "truly critical bout" is scares the crap out of me at a Vet NAC, where vet events are usually considered pure secondary dribel happening on the sidelines (case in point: women's epee team-selection events typically being held as the strips are being dismantled on the last day -- mhm, I can already see what event is likely to be fielded by these newbie refs, letting the ones who actually flew in for the event catch their flights home!).

Aside from that, I will venture to say that NO bout deserves a newbie ref at a NAC. NO bout. After spending the entry fees and paying for airfare and hotel, EVERY fencer attending a NAC will consider HIS or HER bout "critical." You are totally correct, catwood1, LOCAL, non-qualifying tournaments is the place for newbie refs to cut their teeth.

I repeat: LOC, this is an INCREDIBLY bad idea. The USFA will be hearing about this for months.

[catwood1]

The idea of someone deciding what a "truly critical bout" is scares the crap out of me at a Vet NAC, where vet events are usually considered pure secondary dribel happening on the sidelines (case in point: women's epee team-selection events typically being held as the strips are being dismantled on the last day -- mhm, I can already see what event is likely to be fielded by these newbie refs, letting the ones who actually flew in for the event catch their flights home!).

You realize this already happens...right? Why are some bouts in the 64 done by the people getting observed, and some bouts in the 64 that get done by the big guns? Look at an L8 of some cadet event. Why is it sometimes a young promising looking ref who they're going to challenge with the bout, and sometimes its a ref so good he can do the bout with his eyes closed? You think its totally random?

[hello?]

You realize this already happens...right? Why are some bouts in the 64 done by the people getting observed, and some bouts in the 64 that get done by the big guns? Look at an L8 of some cadet event. Why is it sometimes a young promising looking ref who they're going to challenge with the bout, and sometimes its a ref so good he can do the bout with his eyes closed? You think its totally random?

I know it happens, of course. But usually, at NACs, the "promising ref" seems promising because he has been seen reffing. There's a difference between a "5" ref being observed and someone who took the course and passed the test the weekend before the NAC -- so his first-ever bout will be at the NAC. That I have not seen -- and hope not to see in Detroit.

[bigdawg2121]

My first gig was at nationals as a 5...I left as a 4 with 2 or 3 gold medal bouts under my belt (youth events mostly*). I'd say it turned out pretty well. You gotta be more positive in your outlook, your newbue ref could do a bang-up job!


*it's truly strange to see those y10s/12s that were tiny cute things then as your actual contemporaries now.

[SpiralGalaxy]

I'm an 8/8/9, and I've been reffing locally for about 3 years. I suggested trying to walk on at a NAC that was in my state, and the higher rated refs told me that I'd be eaten alive. I was happy to let the more experienced folks handle it.

[fdad]

I'm an 8/8/9, and I've been reffing locally for about 3 years. I suggested trying to walk on at a NAC that was in my state, and the higher rated refs told me that I'd be eaten alive. I was happy to let the more experienced folks handle it.

This is a D2 and D3 NAC. In *this* case I think fencers expect to have less experienced referees in the early rounds. I expect there wont be too many n00bs spending money to buy an official USFA Referee costume for the promise that they won't get their honorarium for at least 18 months.

[CDRMark]

I thought one had to be a 5 or better to ref a NAC? Or are those just "guidelines?"
Cheers
Mark