Believable Feints in Epee

[tchwojko]

Does anyone have any tips on this?

Here's a link to fencing.net's page for epee tips.

[Allen Evans]

In the rare moments when people actually react to my feint, I can't anticipate whether they would counterattack, stop hit, retreat, evade, parry and etc. These fencers mix their attacks and it's hard for me to read them.

If your opponent has THAT many choices to your "feint" I might suggest that you aren't making a feint, but a vague sort of blade motion that you HOPE will be interpreted as a feint but your opponent has chosen to ignore in pursuit of his (or her) own strategy. Another explanation is that their actions are completely predicatable, but you're either "asking" a different question each time you make a "feint" (because of errors in execution, distance, or both) or not paying attention to the answers your opponent gives you when you are being consistent with your "feint".

The essence of fencing -- especially epee fencing -- is a process of preparations, observations, planning, and execution. Execution can be improved through practice and lessons, but preparation, observation, and planning skills will improve by paying attention to your actions leading up to your attack (or "feint") and seeing what is really happening in the bout.

A

[badpenny]

Part of making a successful feint is understanding where your opponent is, mentally I mean, in the match.

Are you in the poule rounds? Is your opponent relaxed? Bored? Well then, a feint in this situation might be more difficult to pull off.

Are you in the finals of a big tourney? Is your opponent nervous? Over-excited. Well, selling a feint might be much easier.

Ask yourself this, what could I do to make my opponent more readily to react to my false action? Do this, and your feints become much more effective.

What I'm trying to say is, you can't just think about yourself all the time. "If I present a threat, then disengage his/her sixth parry, and lunge/advance-lunge/fleche (whatever), I'll score." This thinking is too shallow. Where is your opponent, what is he/she thinking, what would he/she like to see? This is where you need to go mentally to improve, imo. Or, at least for me, this is where I'm trying to go in my fencing, to go beyond myself and to try to get more and more into the head of my opponent.

[samh]

I agree with the idea that feints need to be believable, but I think the moment when the feint is executed is probably even more crucial to its success.

Like the above poster, I agree that observing your opponent's mental state is important, along with strip position and your movement relative to your opponent. A good feint-disengage is usually easier to execute when your opponent can't go backwards. So, either at the opponent's end of the piste or when he/she is in the middle of a step forwards. If your opponent's feet are stuck then they can only react with the blade which simplifies the equation. Also, if the feint is unexpected and believable then your opponent will react instinctively with a certain parry rather than consciously deciding between a variety of options.

A simple exercise that I do with my students is to have the student set a repeating footwork pattern (two steps forward, two steps backwards, for example) which I follow, then they will break the pattern by starting an action as I'm in the middle of a step forward. We start it off with them doing a direct attack and then switch to feint-disengage after the timing is down pat.

[oosnoopy]

Try reading this: "Lies, Damn Lies, and Feints"

(it's about to be revised, but might be helpful)

Great read. I was actually able to put some of those ideas into use last night.

Since I pommel I like to snipe but I'm very much afraid of my blade being overtaken and riposted on, so I have been feinting way to much.

I noticed that one opponent I fought wasn't afraid of my simple attacks, and thus he was probably never going to buy my feints. I worked to make him fear/react to my simple attacks and was able to score quite a few touches. I also focused on feinting a lot less, and not feint for the sake of making an action.

Looking forward to the revision!

[egroeg]

True! it is really a good article, I am also looking forward to its revision Thanks again for anwering my posts everyone, I really found your tips very helpful.

[Batlleth]

It's not a feint until I change my mind and do something different.

Well said. Everyone knows I'm not likely to get a toe touch (although I've got one or two) but I still goof around acting like I'm going to try. It's stupid. I don't know why I do it, really. Maybe because if keep acting like I'm going to do it, it will start happening.

But, most people I regularly fence know I can, and like to, hit the mask. If I'm going for that touch and it doesn't seem to be working out, I drop my blade down so that a chest touch is my fallback. No feint. I'll take either. First one just didn't seem likely to happen so I've got a little bit of backup.

j

[Mathieu]

You need to stop thinking about what is and is not, but more focus on what is perceived.
As many said, the experience of each fencer will alter its perception of your feint.
A feint needs to be tailored to your opponent perception.

Preparations will play a great role in understanding their perception. Preparations will assist you greatly.

To be more believable, you need to reinforce your feint in it's environment.
It is not all about the arm or the point. But it is about the moment, the position on the piste, the timing in the match, the en garde position, etc...

The better your opponent is, the higher the threshold for reacting to your feint will be. So the need to reinforce the action with additional information is more and more pertinent.

And you need to do all of that while keeping enough resources to execute the action that you are planning to do. So it is pretty challenging.

Finally, don't forget to ask yourself: What resource (technical, physical, etc...) my opponent has once he has perceived the treat. Once you know that, you can place your bet more confidently.

Beautiful complexity...

Mat

[RECON]

depending on the fencer and situation, sometimes u can just quickly extend ur arm a little and they'll do some parry out of distance and if u anticipate it right u can just r*pe them with a fleche

[RECON]

or just do a quick little jab step, and move ur arm very little but fast, and then they'll do some bad parry and open themselves up for an attack

[Mathieu]

Thanks for the input Recon.
Great stuff

[RECON]

thx

also a fun one is fake low like ur gonna touch their toe, then they'll extend their arm, and if the distance is right, just pop ur tip up and get them under the glove OR counter-6/counter-4 fleche

[Batlleth]

thx

also a fun one is fake low like ur gonna touch their toe, then they'll extend their arm, and if the distance is right, just pop ur tip up and get them under the glove OR counter-6/counter-4 fleche

I always get sucked into this one with Eldeib because he has incredible range and I KNOW he can hit any particular toe on my foot he wants ("I will now hit Holloway on the toe that went to market."). He "feints" low, I freak (or I think I've got an opportunity to smoke his mask) and he raises his blade so that I can run into it. I've been working on adopting the move myself but I've got to commit to executing more toe touchs (or at least attempting them).

Jason