Deep Junior V.S. Kasparov @ NY Athletic Club

[I see dead people]

Too bad fencing is no where mentioned. But isn't this exciting, maybe somedai we will have man vs machine in fencing. Anyway, anyone is going to see the competition?

[Inquartata]

Ny is just a wee bit too far for me, alas.

Let us know if Kasparov tries any "mind games" on the computer.

[magma]

moi aussi.

[Flash Memory]

Sounds interesting, any word on who won or who is winning at the moment? Kasparov lost to the first Deep right?

[Inquartata]

Yes, he lost to Deep Blue, which was then dismantled. I don't know how Junior differs from it, if it does.

Currently the match is tied 2-2. Kasparov stepped on it in game 3 and lost, then game 4 was a draw.

[135711]

inquart, hello. i havent' followed chess in a long time, i played a computer chess game for a while, and i remember that at first, you lose but after a little while, you start to win almost all the time, because the machine is purely logical, and only makes 'logical' choices, while the person can make an illogical move once in a while, and still win.

[Inquartata]

Yes, though it depends on the machine. Sometimes you can throw them with bizarre moves.

I used to have one that I could beat every time by pushing the QP on to Q5 in the Queen's Gambit, instead of staying on Q4. Never worked against a human opponent, though.

[DHCJr]

Originally posted by Inquartata
Yes, he lost to Deep Blue, which was then dismantled. I don't know how Junior differs from it, if it does.

Yes there was a big difference in philosophy between the two. Deep Blue was brute strength. Take a whole lot of parallel processors and try every combination as far forward as you can. Junior tries to emulate the human mind in two ways. Eliminate illogical moves and learn. Deep Blue was built for one purpose only, while Junior does use a multi-processor, but it is an off the shelf computer and it is the software that is being tested. Right now with computers it seems brute strength is the way to go.

[darius]

Clearly brute force is the way to go; computers excel at crunching numbers. Trying to create machines that "learn" and "think" is the more interesting problem.

I find it entertaining that preparing for a high profile chess match is just like preparing for a football game -- you watch tons and tons of game tape.

darius

[I see dead people]

Originally posted by 135711
inquart, hello. i havent' followed chess in a long time, i played a computer chess game for a while, and i remember that at first, you lose but after a little while, you start to win almost all the time, because the machine is purely logical, and only makes 'logical' choices, while the person can make an illogical move once in a while, and still win.

Yeah it was like 10 years ago. These days, it is kinda hard to find a chess software that doesn't crush me like a bug in every game. These days even chess players at master level have problems beating commercially available chess programs like ChessMaster 9000; not to mention programs run on super computers like Deep Junior.

ps Deep Junior hasn't lost to a human in the last two years. The last game Deep Junior played was a few months ago against Russian GM Vladimir Krammnik, who defeated Kasparov and won the world champion title in 2000, and the result of the match was a draw.

[magma]

i understand the man is incapable of playing against humans, because they twitch and move, rub their noses and cough, sneeze and sigh, move in their seats, make rude noises with their whatevers and drum their fingers. are there any rules in the us chess federation or interational chess federation that would address these issues?

dsylexia is very difficult i really fight reversing my letters, but it comes out somewhere in my misspellings, you have to forgive me! it's all I can do from whatever over this dilema.

[Gav]

I remember reading that Deep junior isn't truly independent of human intervention. The supervising technicians at the end of a session "take it away" and adjust it. Appraently in AI game playing circles it isn't condired truly 'intelligent".

[veeco]

Originally posted by I see dead people
not to mention programs run on super computers like Deep Junior.

Actually, Deep Junior runs on any run of the mill PC. True the PC that Kasparov is playing against right now has 8 CPUs, but you could get one of these for yourself, and buy the program, and play against it. It's far from a super computer like Deep Blue which had 256 dedicated minimax chips.

Originally posted by I see dead people

ps Deep Junior hasn't lost to a human in the last two years. The last game Deep Junior played was a few months ago against Russian GM Vladimir Krammnik, who defeated Kasparov and won the world champion title in 2000, and the result of the match was a draw.

Kramnik played against another program called Deep Fritz, which is different from Deep Junior.

[magma]

playing against people is still more difficult, that's why the top chess masters have so many temper tantrums. does anyone remember bobby fisher? they have to have everything a certain way, which to me means they really can't play. you should be able to play in any kind of atmosphere that is reasonably warm, quiet and comfortable. It's like saying: I'm an expert driver, but I need to have a road without other drivers, with no stop signs or traffic lights, the car must be the latest model made from the best materials. The rest of us seem to be able to manage with a little less 'perfection'.

[Inquartata]

Yeah, people are definitely more vexing. And not just in chess!

Back in college I used to play a certain fellow in the student union every day at lunchtime. Every day, about 8 or 10 moves into the opening he'd remark to me that "That was a blunder". Even more infuriatingly, he was usually right. The only time I ever had him beat, the stupid clock ran out on me. Oh yeah, people can be annoying to play!

[magma]

i used to play chess at work, during lunch, i was a secretary in an architectural firm, we had a great crew, we went sailing together, and played speed chess, and did some theatrical fencing, and that's when i thought about taking up the sport. I' ll never forget them.


and p.s. to veeco i never heard of the chessware you describe, it must be specially designed for international matches? see you around.

[Inquartata]

Well, it's over. A drawn match, how disappointing.

Kasparov had a superior position and said he'd have gone for the win against a human, but the computer doesn't make mistakes and sees even the smallest he might make, so he took the draw.

O faint-hearted!

[veeco]

Originally posted by magma

and p.s. to veeco i never heard of the chessware you describe, it must be specially designed for international matches? see you around.

http://www.chessbase.com sells it