Fleching into your opponent

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Originally posted by epeemike81
Where did apaul (who you were originally responding to) say that the opponent was knocked down?? (snip)If the opponent is knocked down, it is excessive force and is thus NOT alright, according to apaul.

Actually, he never defined what "excessive force" was. My original post had the fencer being knocked down by a direct chest to chest fleche. He did say:

Originally posted by apaul
There is nothing wrong with fleching into your oppponent in epee. (snip)
Fencing is a sport. We are athletes. Quit whining.

That was when I somehow failed to detect a kinder, gentler attitude. My bad.


QUOTE]Originally posted by epeemike81
but what you seemingly fail to acknowledge is that its quite possible to have an intentional collision without "displacement"..[/QUOTE]

Perhaps we should substitiute the phrase "gentle, zephyr-like wafting together of two corporeal forms" for collision. Then we'd all be happier.

Originally posted by epeemike81
I am not arguing, nor have I ever, that knocking somebody down/back isn't cardable. All I am pointing out is that chronically fleching directly into your opponent IS legal, if you DON'T jostle them.

Absoposivitivilutely, Mr. Flanders. If you don't jostle, it's legal. Now, if we could only agree on what constitutes jostling.

Originally posted by epeemike81
It frequently IS a BS card (note I said FREQUENTLY, not always. please try to refrain from jumping all positions to extremes)..

Don't believe I made any such quantification, Mr. Saucepan Pointing Out Carbon Deposits on the Kettle-like Cooking Appliance. I just said if YOU happen to draw such a card, don't automatically complain that it's a BS call.

Originally posted by epeemike81
I am a big guy. there was a 13 year old girl at a local competition who was chronically fleching into me. I was NEVER moved at all. on the third or so, the director (who was thinking like you) gave her a card for jostling. jostling who? herself??.

You and all the UMass boys must have been very proud at your ability to withstand the repeated rhino-like charging of a 13 year old girl.

Let's see...could it be that jostling has other benchmarks besides displacement? Could it be that, in the eyes of the director, repeated impacts can transcend fleching corps a corps? Did you rip off your mask and vigorously dispute the BS call, so as to return the touch to her?

Originally posted by epeemike81
Since you seem to be losing it in all the discussion, let me summarize my one major point:

Not only is it possible to have a non-incidental collision which is not jostling, it happens frequently.
-m

Oh, well, now that you put it THAT way, it all becomes much clearer.

Allow me to summarize my major point:

Not only is it possible to have non-incidental collisions result in jostling, it happens frequently. It is carded much less frequently.

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Capt. Slo-mo
Absoposivitivilutely, Mr. Flanders. If you don't jostle, it's legal. Now, if we could only agree on what constitutes jostling.

Actually, we can. I agree to the following definition: a collision which CAUSES displacement of your opponent. What I don't agree to is a collision followed by displacement of your opponent. There are FAR too many refs who are easily duped.

Don't believe I made any such quantification, Mr. Saucepan Pointing Out Carbon Deposits on the Kettle-like Cooking Appliance. I just said if YOU happen to draw such a card, don't automatically complain that it's a BS call.

I never AUTOMATICALLY complain about anything. I'll call it like I see it, if/when it happens. btw, I have never received or been deserving of a jostling card.

You and all the UMass boys must have been very proud at your ability to withstand the repeated rhino-like charging of a 13 year old girl.

positively thrilled.

Let's see...could it be that jostling has other benchmarks besides displacement? Could it be that, in the eyes of the director, repeated impacts can transcend fleching corps a corps? Did you rip off your mask and vigorously dispute the BS call, so as to return the touch to her?

trust me, had you seen this, you would realize how completely unwarranted the card is, and yes I DID dispute the card, to no avail, though.

Oh, well, now that you put it THAT way, it all becomes much clearer.

Allow me to summarize my major point:

Not only is it possible to have non-incidental collisions result in jostling, it happens frequently. It is carded much less frequently.

again, I feel that mistakes are made in both directions. however, I feel that they are not NEARLY as frequent as you seem to think. Is it possible that apaul and I, as epeeists, are a little more qualified to comment on whether it frequently goes unnoticed than you, a sabreur, are?

-m

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Originally posted by epeemike81
Actually, we can. I agree to the following definition: a collision which CAUSES displacement of your opponent.

Agreed.

Originally posted by epeemike81
Is it possible that apaul and I, as epeeists, are a little more qualified to comment on whether it frequently goes unnoticed than you, a sabreur, are?

Rank Weaponism!

Actually, it seems to me that the best part of this board is the cross-pollination of ideas between the disciplines. Without it, things would degenerate into banal one-weapon narcissism.

Besides, for all I know, apaul is a quadriplegic hermaphrodite from Latvia whose entire interest in fencing stems from his ability to recite all the dialog from "The Princess Bride" in Klingon.

On the other hand, he could be Eric Hansen.

It doesn't matter. Let's just go on having fun keeping each other from getting too full of ourselves.

[Mo]

He has had the last word for over 24 hours...

LET IT GO!!!!!!!!!!

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Awwww, MOMMMMM!

(he started it)

[FHPyro4L]

There's this female foil fencer I've fenced often and in one particular bout, Heffer the cow, (or so i call her) brang her arm back and while shooting it forward (does that stop her right of way, by the way?) she jumped with both feet at me, and her blade completely missed while her feet had quite good positioning as they landed directly ontop of mine. There for, i could not retreat, i could not move, i couldn't not parry repost. she ended up recieving only a yellow card and i was a lil annoyed by that... she gives me the most vicious looks when we fence... errrrg.. yea, so that's my story

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Fee, Fie, Fum, Toll.

I smell the scent of a New York troll.

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Mo
He has had the last word for over 24 hours...

See what happens when I let silly things like fencing, directing, socializing, and schoolwork distract me....

-m

[Inquartata]

Yes, what WERE you thinking? I mean, you did say that arguing was your primary sport!

Tsk, tsk.

[BugabooX]

I'd like to address this initial post point-by-point so that there's no doubt as to my hyper-intelligent superiority over the dim-bulb who wrote this drivel the first time. I suppose I could be using my time better in some other endeavor, but this is very, very, very important and will probably make the world a better place:

Originally posted by BugabooX
Has your opponent...

Now right off the mark, it's obvious that you're confused. When you say "opponent," are you referring to the neo-Republican interpretation used in the 1988 city council elections in Oklahoma City, or the more common usage found in the 3rd edition D&D Players Handbook and my daughter's secret diary?

In either case, you're wrong. And my toes are toasty warm in these new thick socks I bought yesterday.

Originally posted by BugabooX
... ever physically attacked ...

At this point, it behooves me to digress into a dissection of the current smallpox vaccination program, and contrast it to the 1976 swine flu "epidemic" response. In both cases, as you're implying here, the American public has been "physically attacked," or is facing threat of the same, by a ... Ummm. I lost my thought. Just a second.

Originally posted by BugabooX
... you on the strip in ...

What is this crap?! "You on the strip in?"
"You on the strip in?!"
My grandmother's crippled left foot could compose a better phrase the "you on the strip in."
And as I've stated before -- you idiot doofus excuse for an epeeist -- if the parent (most likely the mother) consistently reacts badly to the infant's natural tendancy to push away during the individuation/separation phase of development, it's going to cause problems later in the child's integration of a cohesive self-identity. The "good-enough" mother can make mistakes with little damage; it's the *chronic* hyper-stimulation that you have to be wary of.
So take a chill pill already.

Originally posted by BugabooX
... a manner that lies ...

You calling me a liar?! I am forced to resort to an inappropriate smiley character here in defense of my position.

You, sir, are a liar. I am a gentleman and would never call someone by rude names.

Originally posted by BugabooX
... beyond the approved boundaries of the ...

I'm losing my patience, and tire of this unnecessary bickering between us. If you don't stop now, I'm going to pick apart every single message you ever post from here to eternity OR until all the other users on this board leave in disgust because they're tired of looking at page after page after page after page of old, quoted material.

Hmmm. My pants are tingling. What's up with that?

Originally posted by BugabooX
... sport? (i.e. punching, shoving, kicking, etc.) And if so, what prompted the reaction? How was that person treated afterward?

At least you agree with me on that. Even if it is taken out of context.
I forgive you.
Now let's go buy a rootbeer. Your treat.

[Inquartata]

ROTFLMAO!!!!

[bug]

That was absolutely fabulous.

[Sabress]

I have a friend who did karate before she started fencing. In her first bout in a competition she was fencing , and when the opponent came up to her to score, she took hold of his blade , pulling it towards her and punched the person in the stomach. Of course she wasn't being nasty or anything (she's one of the nicest people i know) but it was just an instinct from the karate.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Bugaboo:

Many modern chemical regimens have proven efficacious for psychotic break episodes.

You may want to check with your health care professional for the medication that will best serve your needs.

By the way, during these discussions with your....ahh...voices, have any of them suggested doing something dangerous, like picking up a piece of metal and trying to hit someone?

Just wondering.

We're all here for all of you, whenever any of you want to talk.

[Kodiak Kid]

BugabooX.
Thanks for bringing this discussion into sharp focus for all the rest of us marginally interested types. Your succinct interpretation of the cogent facets of the argument shows your appitude for running for the office of Board President. ( a meaningless title with no authority or perks whatsoever, true )

I was about to entertain you all with a discription of how I had managed to lose a DE in a tourny last weekend to a guy 10 years my senior due to A) knocking him down (yellow) and then B) brushing his arm with my bell guard (Red). But after all the preceding I think enough is enough.

I cast my vote for BugabooX the Arbiter for "Board President" and all the honors deserving of said title.

[epeefencer74]

Originally posted by Sabress
I have a friend who did karate before she started fencing. In her first bout in a competition she was fencing , and when the opponent came up to her to score, she took hold of his blade , pulling it towards her and punched the person in the stomach. Of course she wasn't being nasty or anything (she's one of the nicest people i know) but it was just an instinct from the karate.

Oh, Oh, I've got a similar story. I have a friend who took up fencing after many years of competing in Tae Kwon Do. On her first foil bout, her opponent did a very quick advance whereupon she promptly reacted with a jumping reverse kick and promptly got entangled in the reel cable. Was quite funny to see. Thankfully the kick didin't make contact with the other guy.

[pkt]

I discovered this move accidentally in practise:
when your opponant charges you take Prime parry, step in to him, take the blade, aim the elbow in his mask, and guess what you'll have:
a perfectly legit parry, downward riposte to the lower part of his body together with an elbow in his mask.
When done properly, you should have
1. a valid riposte,
2. him on his back and
3. he should get a yellow card for corps-a-corps.

Practice this and good luck.

Another one I heard was this.

In sabre, this idiot was hard hitting a former world champ.
The world champ feint a head cut,
the idiot went up to quinte,
the world champ cut him on his sword hand fingers.
MAJOR OUCH !!!!
no more holding the sabre.

PK

[veeco]

Originally posted by pkt
I discovered this move accidentally in practise:
when your opponant charges you take Prime parry, step in to him, take the blade, aim the elbow in his mask, and guess what you'll have:
a perfectly legit parry, downward riposte to the lower part of his body together with an elbow in his mask.
When done properly, you should have
1. a valid riposte,
2. him on his back and
3. he should get a yellow card for corps-a-corps.

You should both get a yellow card because you stepped in as well, and consequently the riposte won't be valid as the card will annul the touch.

If you hit him hard enough to get him on his back, it will at least be considered as jostling, or it might even be called as vindictive act which is a red card.

I would not try it too hard if I were you... ;-)

[pkt]

I think that's what happened the first time I used it : both of us got a yellow card. But, hey, it's still better than having the cops involved, isn't it?

and if the other fencer is not wearing a cup....

PK