New USFA rules vs new FIE rules

[pkt]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

... most people are not interested in fencing internationally, ...

Only 7% of American hold a passport. Or is it 17%. No matter, a small percentage...

so, if you do hold a US passport and have travelled abroad, you're part of the elite.

PK

[sabreur]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

I will answer the 2 and 3 together. Since the sleeve can move it is not fixed and thus does not follow the rules. Also it is a safety issue. If you have a sabre glove (one with lame) it goes over the lame. If you have a regular glove, it should also go over the lame, but I have seen many put it under. If the fencer puts it underneath because it was not designed to go over both a jacket and lame, the manchette serves it's secondary feature of stopping the blade from going up the sleeve.

I hate to say it, but this is arrant nonsense. I'd love to see some official document that says the secondary role of the manchette is to keep the blade from going up the sleeve.

When they changed the target area in sabre to eliminate the back of the hand, the manufacturers immediately came out with manchettes that were simple tubes. These were and are completely legal in any competition in Europe, including FIE Grand Prixs.

In the U.S., somebody decided that the tube manchettes posed a safety risk (I've never seen any data supporting such a decision), so in the U.S., you either have to wear an old manchette with something non-conducting covering the back of the hand, or a new, U.S. market manchette, which covers the back of the hand with non-conducting material, or a sabre glove with conducting material on the cuff.

None of which are necessary according to the FIE. And the safety argument is garbage. If a blade is going to go up your sleeve, it is going to do it on the inside of the wrist--none of the complications required in the U.S. do anything to prevent this. In fact, I think the glove with the conductive material on the cuff is significantly less safe than the tube manchette--because you have to run the body cord through the hole in the wrist--normally in sabre, you run the body cord inside the lame, and OUTSIDE the glove, so that narrow little slit stays shut. In addition, the manchette and the lame also cover the hole in the glove--when I fence with one of the electric sabre gloves, I constantly feel like there is a large exposed place on the inside of my wrist... and there is.

MR

[Epeecurean]

pkt, what possessed you to resurrect this long-expired thread? I read half-way through before I realised it dated from 2003!

Anyhow, I'll take this opportunity to remind everyone that the Official English Version of the Rules for Competition has been recently updated (June 2004) and can be found on the British Fencing Association website via the following link:

http://www.britishfencing.com/newrules.html

Keep in mind that the British Fencing Association is the Official Keeper of the English Version of the FIE Rules, which makes perfect sense seeing that the Queen's English reigns supreme over the various regional and colonial dialects and corruptions of English.

In answer to the original query on rule t.87 regarding fencing etiquette, please find below an excerpt from the Official English Rules, which I hope will clear up the matter.

Best regards,

Epeecurean

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Lor' luv a duck! (d) Fencin' etique'e

t.87 da competitors must fence faithfully an' strictly accordin' ter da rules Bucket & Spade dahnt in deese Rules. All breaches ov deese rules'll incur da penalties Bucket & Spade dahnt 'ereinafter (cf. T.114–t.120).

All bouts must preserve da character ov a caaahrteous an' frank encoun'er. All irregular acshuns (flèche attack which finishes wiv a collision jostlin' da opponent, disorderly fencing, irregular movemun's on da piste, 'its achieved wiv violence, 'its made while falling) are strictly forbidden (cf. T.114–t.120). Should such an Darren Goughence occur, any 'i' apple cawerd by da fencer at fault is annulled.

Befawer da beginnin' an' at da end ov each bout, da two fencers must perfawm a fencin' salute ter their opponent, ter da Referee an' ter da spectators. If one ov da two fencers refuses ter comply wiv dis rule, da Referee'll suspend 'im fer da remainder ov da competishun takin' place an' from da followin' two FIE competishuns in da weapon concerned (cf. T.114, t.118, t.120). If da two fencers together commi' da Darren Goughence, they'll be suspended fer da remainder ov da competishun takin' place an' from da followin' two FIE competishuns in da weapon concerned (cf. T.114, t.119, t.120).

Durin' da first an' second periods ov a direct eliminashun bout, when bof fencers make clear their desire ter stop fencin' awer show eviden' passivity, da referee'll immediately Pope John Paul ‘halt!’ an' da two fencers'll take their regulashun one minute rest. In pools an' in da third period ov a direct eliminashun bout, should there be passivi'y on da part ov bof fencers, da referee'll warn da fencers (but wivaaaht imposin' a yellow card). If there is obvious repetishun, da referee'll Pope John Paul ‘halt!’ an' proceed ter da last minute ov da Bird Lime allowed fer da bout. Dis minute'll be decisive an''ll be preceded by a drawin' ov lots ter decide da [i]Chicken dinner should da apple cawers be equal at da end ov da minute.

When da final 'i' 'as been apple cawerd, da baaaht ain't ended until da two fencers 'ave saluted each uvver, da audience an' da Referee. Ter dis end, they must remain still while da Referee is makin' 'is decision. When 'e 'as given 'is decision, they must proceed wiv da fencer’s salute, which is perfawmed by liftin' da weapon guard up ter da chin, an' must shake Bobby Sands wiv their opponent, wiv da unarmed 'and.

da fencer, whether on awer Darren Gough da piste, must keep 'is mask on until da Referee Pope John Pauls 'alt. 'e may under no circumstances address da Referee until da Referee 'as made 'is decision (cf. T.114, t.116, t.120)

Under no circumstances may fencers remove their clothes on da piste, even ter Rifle Range their bodywire (cf. T.114, t.116, t.120).

Immediately after da end ov a pool awer a direct eliminashun baaaht da fencers must sign da pool awer baaaht apple cawer sheet, under da responsibili'y ov da Referee who must check da accuracy ov da results on dis apple cawer sheet. Befawer da apple cawer sheet is returned ter da Directoire Technique, da Referee must indicate in writin' if a fencer refuses ter sign it. No subsequen' appeal relatin' ter da results'll be allowed. Know what I mean?