Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Mo · 01-23-2003, 04:51 PM

Veeco says:

However, I have one thing I would like to complain about this NAC:

1- The venue was too cold
2- There weren't enough chairs

I agree especially about the chairs. Another issue was the lack of space to spectate. The distance between barriers was only about five feet maybe 6 and between all the chairs and people, it was very difficult to get from one place to another.
In the area between the strips on the side people had their bags laid out right where spectators were expected to stand and they would get a little bent that someone was standing over their bag. DUH!!
The refereeing was kind of "interesting" in this meet too.... but in which one isn't it??
It seems like the venue was either really breezy and chilly or it was muggy and hot. There was no middle ground.

Catal · 01-23-2003, 04:56 PM

> 1- The venue was too cold

Aye, it was friggin' cold.

oiuyt · 01-23-2003, 07:28 PM

I was there on Monday and had absolutely NO problems with the temperature, number of chairs, availability of space for spectators, etc.

I doubt the number of chairs or space changed during the weekend and the temperature is unlikely to have.

If I hadn't heard complaints Sunday night about the temp I wouldn't have even noticed anything out of the ordinary. It was perfectly comfortable IMO.

As for the refs, I had no problem with either ref that I had. Looked like pretty much the usual people, I got a couple of good ones.

-B :)

Catal · 01-23-2003, 08:09 PM

I was there on Monday and had absolutely NO problems with the temperature, number of chairs, availability of space for spectators, etc.

That's cause the rest of us spent the whole weekend heating it up for you!

Capt. Slo-mo · 01-23-2003, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by veeco
However, I have one thing I would like to complain about this NAC:

1- The venue was too cold
2- There weren't enough chairs

Ok...that's two things.

I thought it was refreshing not to have such a hot, muggy environment to fence in. Anyone remember Greenville?

True, there weren't even close to enough chairs, and there was an insufficient area set aside outside the barricades for fencing bags and movement around the venue.

But the biggest problem was you could see the beach from the venue parking lot, but couldn't get there without wading thru a salt marsh!

Peach · 01-23-2003, 10:26 PM

I arrived on Saturday. Apparently Saturday morning it was absolutely freezing in there, but it warmed up by mid-day. It was actually very reasonable on Sunday.

There sure were few chairs, and a lot of us had our bags in a kind of bay between the side strips, so I did a lot of tiptoe-ing between spilled bottles, bags, clothing, and stray fencing equipment. I warmed up (jogging) outside because there wasn't any space to do it inside.

Otherwise it was okay. Nothing out of the usual. A huge barn, darker than a lot of venues. Fun little tram from the hotel to the venue, and it was warm enough for my event (close of check-in 1:00 p.m.) that it was fine.

a517dogg · 01-23-2003, 10:26 PM

the venue was not insulated at all from the outside. therefore in the morning it was freezing, and by the tmie outside heated up, the inside was heated up as well, both by the sun and by the thousand bodies inside. senior mens sabre started at 11am, you probably got there at like 10.30am, right? well at 7.30 am on saturday and monday it was pretty chilly.

sallearmourer · 01-23-2003, 11:32 PM

It had to be one of the coldest one I work in the mornings

Mr_Foilist · 01-24-2003, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Slo-mo
What he should have done--like he did at Austin and Sacramento was single out the people he was talking about. As in..."You, there in the black hat on strip 6...yes, you...get behind the barrier please." When he's done that before, it works like a charm, and people find it harder to ignore him.

No. What he should have done was gotten his *** down from the bout committee area after making a general announcement and approached the offending individuals face to face to handle the matter quietly, rather than sound like a kindergarten teacher who has lost control of his classroom. But, to do that would require a certain level of professionalism that George K. apparently lacks. This harkens back to his general attitude of "I'm always right and you're always wrong, even if I'm wrong." .

Or, what he could have done was he could have taken the stick out of his *** and realized that the tournament would have run just fine without the barriers, as Nationals at Sacramento and Utah did. Granted, the barriers were there but, eventually, people started ignoring them. But, while ignoring them, they still tended to maintain a respectful distance from the strip and the referee and the tournament ran just fine. In fact, the atmosphere was a little more charged due to the yelling and cheering of spectators and the fencing was actually fun to watch. "Respectful" is a subjective term that is defined by the presiding referee on each strip. If a ref feels that a group of indiividuals is too close to himself or the strip for his liking, he should excercise some measure of strip control and tell the spectators to move. That's his job.

Or, here's a crazy idea, why not have an area for spectators to sit near the strips? People ***** and moan about how this sport needs to become more spectator friendly (an idea that I totally agree with). How can that happen if spectators are expected to mill around outside the perimeter of an area that encapsulates numerous strips? What if the spectator is trying to watch a bout that's occurring somewhere in the middle of the large area that was roped off? Should they have to break out a ladder and use a telescope just to watch their friend, son, daughter, brother, sister, or whatever fence?

I think it's ridiculous how the only area that was made to be spectator friendly was the finals area at the last two Nationals (and probably every other one prior to that). What, should no one be allowed to have a good view of the rounds preceeding the finals? It's stupid and counterproductive. I think it hurts the sport more to restrict the spectators rather than encourage them to watch as much of the tournament as possible. Part of a referee's job is excersising strip control. If he can't control a relatively small group of people near his strip then he shouldn't be reffing at anything other than local qualifiers.

And, to reply to someone else's reasoning as to why everyone got annoyed over the frequent announcements to clear out the fencing area; they didn't get annoyed because the announcements had to be made, they got annoyed because this unprofessional nitwit (George K.) was bantering like a school marm over the PA system about something that everyone knows to be detrimental to this sport for all the reasons that I mentioned above.

Okay, rant over.

epeemike81 · 01-24-2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Foilist
And, as long as I'm on a rant about the poor governing of pretty much every major tournament by the USFA, why the hell aren't coaches allowed near the damned strips?????????

umm..... they are.....

-m

Mr_Foilist · 01-24-2003, 11:48 AM

Oops, my bad. I realized that after I had typed it and had forgotten to take it out after editing the rest of the post.

Catal · 01-24-2003, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by epeemike81
umm..... they are.....

-m

??? Someone tried to coach Horvath during the DIVIME final, and the ref told him coaching on piste wasn't allowed. It this one of those rarely enforced things, or just something that happens in the finals?

Mr_Foilist · 01-24-2003, 12:30 PM

I'm not sure. I allow it when I ref. They did allow it at Nationals but I'm not sure whether it's becuase my coach is who he is or if it's because they're supposed to allow it. I say that because I can't remember seeing too many other coaches actively coaching on the strip. But, that could be because I wasn't looking for it either.

Could it be that the coach in question was being too loud or coaching in some other way that the referee found to be disturbing the good working order of the strip? That happens sometimes and the ref, if he has a set of juevos, will ask a coach to politely shut up or simply throw them off the strip.

Catal · 01-24-2003, 12:35 PM

It was before the start of the final, one of Horvath's friends [teammates?] walked over to him and was giving some suggestions; the ref noticed and that was when he cautioned the guy.

Peach · 01-24-2003, 12:40 PM

Coaches are currently expected to stay behind the two-meter line or at the end of the strip, and then only while their fencers are up. Otherwise they're supposed to stay outside the enclosure.

epeemike81 · 01-24-2003, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Catal
??? Someone tried to coach Horvath during the DIVIME final, and the ref told him coaching on piste wasn't allowed. It this one of those rarely enforced things, or just something that happens in the finals?

who was the ref?? anybody reffing DivI ME Finals should know the rules, but it is legal to strip side coach, just not from in front of the two meter warning zone.

-m

epeemike81 · 01-24-2003, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Catal
It was before the start of the final, one of Horvath's friends [teammates?] walked over to him and was giving some suggestions; the ref noticed and that was when he cautioned the guy.

Did he have an actual coach?? if he had a coach and a different person was inside the inclosure as well, that is not allowed. he is entitled one coach and only one coach inside the barrier.

-m

Catal · 01-24-2003, 12:57 PM

I don't know his name, he had reddish brown hair, and a goatee. He was in his late 30's, early 40's. The person who was coaching was at the end of the piste, past the 2-meter zone.

epeemike81 · 01-24-2003, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Catal
I don't know his name, he had reddish brown hair, and a goatee. He was in his late 30's, early 40's. The person who was coaching was at the end of the piste, past the 2-meter zone.

And was the only coach?

weird.......

-m

nahouw · 01-25-2003, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Foilist
No. What he should have done was gotten his *** down from the bout committee area after making a general announcement and approached the offending individuals face to face to handle the matter quietly, rather than sound like a kindergarten teacher who has lost control of his classroom. But, to do that would require a certain level of professionalism that George K. apparently lacks. This harkens back to his general attitude of "I'm always right and you're always wrong, even if I'm wrong." .
.

Exactly. To quietly approach somebody is the way that high-level managers manage their people. Unfortunately, the high level people in the USFA are not high-level managers -- apparently, by their actions, it seems that they are low-level managers, or , for some, they are at best, mid-level managers in their professions -- remember, when it comes to USFA events, they are volunteers.

But then again, something has to be said about the object of his PA announcement -- why did that person not heed the announcement to begin with? Were they that dysfunctional that they didn't recognize that they were not in compliance with the rules? or did they feel that they were so special that they did not have to comply with Geroge K's public request?

And another question is for the referee on that strip -- he certainly had to hear George K.'s initial announcement -- why didn't he enforce the rule to maintain good order on his strip? Especially since apparenty George K. repeated this announcement, the referee should have taken this as his cue to 1) ask the person to leave and 2) if they didn't, red card the spectator and report it to the bout committee.