Phrase help needed by hopeless newbie!

[Aoife]

Hi, I'm a little stuck on some terminology.

What's the difference between 'touch' and 'touché'? My French is incrediably lacking, so can't even begin to go into it that way, so I was wondering if anybody could explain. I've seen both used around the place and it's muddled me a bit. I think a 'touch' is a hit right? So is a 'touché' the same thing?

Thanks.

Aoife

[damianip]

"Touche" (pronounced "toosh') is "touch" the noun. As an example: "Touche gauche" is "Touch left"

Touché ("tooshay") is the past participle of the verb toucher (to touch) and means "touched" as in "I've been touched".

Does this help? I hope I've gotten it correct. It's been a long time since high school French.

Veeco???

Paolo

[Aoife]

Okay. I think. (this is why I dropped French..... mind you, my German's not to hot either )


So how would each be used in a fencing context? (ie. In freeplay, when you're acknoledging a hit which do you use?)

Thanks.

[veeco]

Originally posted by damianip
"Touche" (pronounced "toosh') is "touch" the noun. As an example: "Touche gauche" is "Touch left"

Touché ("tooshay") is the past participle of the verb toucher (to touch) and means "touched" as in "I've been touched".

Does this help? I hope I've gotten it correct. It's been a long time since high school French.

Veeco???

Paolo

Long time, but it's still a better explanation than I would have made ;-)

[Boo Boo]

Some people use "Touche" (Toosh) to acknowlegde a hit. Personally, I normally just say "on me".

We have a guy at one of the clubs where I fence, who often yells "Touche" (Tooshay) when he thinks he has scored a hit - with lots of dramatics... he is very funny (and we call him "Mr Touche" (Mr Tooshay)).

Boo
(who can't remember how to get the French letters on her keyboard).

[Iwant2bafencer]

Personally I would think Touche (tooshay) would be used when admiting that someone has hit you. Example: In movies when to people are sparing (verbally) and one take a particularly harsh blow or figures they can't come up with a good come back, then they would say "Touche (tooshay)" as for touch (toosh) don't ask me. I'm fully German

----------------------
Carpe Diem
Ad Asha

[Aoife]

(who can't remember how to get the French letters on her keyboard).

Boo, for 'é' I type 'Ctrl' 'Alt' and 'e' simulataiously.

(but to behonest, I've fiddled with my keybord so I can type Croatian accents, and convert to Russian alphabet, so I wouldn't be surprised if none of my key-combinations are in their origional place )

So using 'Touche' (toosh) is okay? Me and a friend were having a discussion/debate/petty argument over this. She was insistant that I should say 'Touché', and I was (fairly) sure 'touche' was okay.

Thanks all

[DHCJr]

When I use Ctrl-Alt-e, I get €. When I want accents and other special character, I first put in the special character using the Ctrl key followed by the letter. Here are two examples. For é, I first press Ctrl-‘. Nothing appears to happen, then I just type in e and é appear. For ô, I first press Ctrl-Shift-^ and again nothing appears. They I type in o and ô appear. I know this gets complicated, but it always works for me. The same can be done for ñ and other simple accents. Russian and Croatian I won't even attempt.

[Boo Boo]

I know, Iwant2bafencer, but not much of what "Mr Touché" says makes sense (including his presiding ;-)).

"Touche" is the way that most people who complete seriously in the UK would say it. I guess that "Touché" is also valid, but sounds a little "cliché" (a bit Musketeer like...), but that may be my personal opinion... :-)

So both of you are right, but you probably have the "fashoinable" edge over your friend...

Boo

[Stryder]

Touche' means "I have been touched" you would say it if you were trying to indicate the fact that you had been hit. It does not mean that a valid point has been scored on you. Both fencers are frequently touched yet only one scores a point.

Touche (without the accent that won't work on my laptop) means simply "touch" modern fencers say touche more often because we count touches as points for, rather than points against as was done in the past.

Let me 'splain...no. There is too much. Let me sum up:

Say touche (without the "ay") unless you want to sound like a pompous poof. In that case say Touchaaayyy and wave a hankerchief under your nose.

[Boo Boo]

Well that's one way of saying what I did, but with rather less tact... (said with tact in case anyone who reads these boards believes that yelling "Touché!" after every hit is ones of their greatest fencing assets....).

My apologies if I caused any confusion: my clubmate is indeed wrong when he yells "Touché" for something he considers his hit - but then again, he lives in his own little fencing world...).

Boo

[Aoife]

lol- thanks all. That's great (my friend isn't so happy, but retains that she can be a

pompous poof

if she wants to be )

[lochinvar]

In sum:

Say "touche" (toosh) if you want to claim that YOU hit THEM.
Say "touché" (tooshay) if you want to acknowledtge that THEY hit YOU.

Don't say anything in French at all if you don't want to be thought a "pompous poof".

Say instead, "Nice one!" or "Who's your daddy, b****?" or "Oh, man, I can't believe it!" or "Bogus!!" or just simply "Argh!"

Under no circumstances scream "Et la!" (or Aye-la! or any of the many variant spellings) at the top of your lungs regardless of who touched whom--that's just plain annoying.

[Boo Boo]

The yelling/screaming thing is always a contraversal point (especially since I haven't screamed or yelled since 20th November - my last competition...) - lots of threads on it.

Boo
(should have the opportunity in a couple of weeks though... )

[damianip]

When bouting at the club, I love to annoy my team mates by switching from my usual, guttural, mono syllabic yell to the dreaded "opahhh!!!".

If successful, I am rewarded with a "touché" dripping in sarcasm.

If you don't like what people do when they get a touch, don't let them get the touch.



Paolo

[Tomas N]

One thing I learned from watching the WC finals in men's epee this year is that it's "ok" to rip your mask off and jump for joy regardless of whether you've hit or been hit. Apparently double-touches are particularly gratifying and warrant some serious fist pumping. (Hey everyone wins from a double touch!) Since this seems like a gracious and uniform method of celebrating (or acknowledging) a hit, I'm considering starting to do it too.

[Aoife]

One thing I learned from watching the WC finals in men's epee this year is that it's "ok" to rip your mask off and jump for joy regardless of whether you've hit or been hit.

lol- I can see eyes being lost here.....

[epeefencer74]

Or you could simple say "Yes!" with lots of conviction when you score a hit or "S**t" when you get hit, Or even "My god how did I miss that"

[Inquartata]

What got a chuckle from me while watching the WC sabre tapes was the several occasions in which a fencer did the whole expectant fist-pumping thing...and then three seconds later raised an index finger to acknowledge being touched.

Now, either you know you're touched, in which case you oughtn't be doing a victory pantomime...or you really think the touch was yours, in which case you oughtn't be acknowledging....

[pammie003]

I've seen a lot of opponents simply patting the place where I have scored a touch and have started to do the same myself, but that could be because all of the members of my new club are German, and I have a hard time hearing and understanding them with all of my gear on. They also seem to get the idea that they've scored a hit when I talk to myself in English (usually after some incredible stupidity on my part).
Back in Canada, "nice one", etc. always seemed to suffice.