Phrase help needed by hopeless newbie! - Fencing.Net Discussion
topleft topright

Go Back   Fencing.Net Discussion > General Fencing > Fencing Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-20-2003, 02:56 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Aoife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 232
Aoife will become famous soon enoughAoife will become famous soon enough
Phrase help needed by hopeless newbie!

Hi, I'm a little stuck on some terminology.

What's the difference between 'touch' and 'touché'? My French is incrediably lacking, so can't even begin to go into it that way, so I was wondering if anybody could explain. I've seen both used around the place and it's muddled me a bit. I think a 'touch' is a hit right? So is a 'touché' the same thing?

Thanks.

Aoife
__________________
I wish there were some giant, economy-size asprin tablet that would work on international headaches. But there isn't. The only cure is patience with reason mixed in. - Lyndon B. Johnson.

Member of the Clarendon Blades.
Aoife is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
And now for this message...
Go Green members don't see these ads.


Old 01-20-2003, 03:01 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
damianip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 1,191
damianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond repute
"Touche" (pronounced "toosh') is "touch" the noun. As an example: "Touche gauche" is "Touch left"

Touché ("tooshay") is the past participle of the verb toucher (to touch) and means "touched" as in "I've been touched".

Does this help? I hope I've gotten it correct. It's been a long time since high school French.

Veeco???

Paolo
__________________
"He is a man of splendid abilities but utterly corrupt. He shines and stinks like rotten mackerel by moonlight." "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
damianip is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2003, 03:49 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Aoife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 232
Aoife will become famous soon enoughAoife will become famous soon enough
Okay. I think. (this is why I dropped French..... mind you, my German's not to hot either )


So how would each be used in a fencing context? (ie. In freeplay, when you're acknoledging a hit which do you use?)

Thanks.
__________________
I wish there were some giant, economy-size asprin tablet that would work on international headaches. But there isn't. The only cure is patience with reason mixed in. - Lyndon B. Johnson.

Member of the Clarendon Blades.
Aoife is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2003, 04:05 PM   #4
Fencing Expert
 
veeco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
veeco has a reputation beyond reputeveeco has a reputation beyond reputeveeco has a reputation beyond reputeveeco has a reputation beyond reputeveeco has a reputation beyond reputeveeco has a reputation beyond reputeveeco has a reputation beyond reputeveeco has a reputation beyond reputeveeco has a reputation beyond reputeveeco has a reputation beyond reputeveeco has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to veeco Send a message via Yahoo to veeco
Quote:
Originally posted by damianip
"Touche" (pronounced "toosh') is "touch" the noun. As an example: "Touche gauche" is "Touch left"

Touché ("tooshay") is the past participle of the verb toucher (to touch) and means "touched" as in "I've been touched".

Does this help? I hope I've gotten it correct. It's been a long time since high school French.

Veeco???

Paolo
Long time, but it's still a better explanation than I would have made ;-)
__________________
  • Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
  • To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
veeco is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2003, 04:27 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Boo Boo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 784
Boo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of light
Some people use "Touche" (Toosh) to acknowlegde a hit. Personally, I normally just say "on me".

We have a guy at one of the clubs where I fence, who often yells "Touche" (Tooshay) when he thinks he has scored a hit - with lots of dramatics... he is very funny (and we call him "Mr Touche" (Mr Tooshay)).

Boo
(who can't remember how to get the French letters on her keyboard).
Boo Boo is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2003, 04:44 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Iwant2bafencer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The great U.S.ofA.
Posts: 1,362
Iwant2bafencer is a jewel in the roughIwant2bafencer is a jewel in the roughIwant2bafencer is a jewel in the rough
Personally I would think Touche (tooshay) would be used when admiting that someone has hit you. Example: In movies when to people are sparing (verbally) and one take a particularly harsh blow or figures they can't come up with a good come back, then they would say "Touche (tooshay)" as for touch (toosh) don't ask me. I'm fully German

----------------------
Carpe Diem
Ad Asha
Iwant2bafencer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2003, 04:54 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Aoife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 232
Aoife will become famous soon enoughAoife will become famous soon enough
Quote:
(who can't remember how to get the French letters on her keyboard).
Boo, for 'é' I type 'Ctrl' 'Alt' and 'e' simulataiously.

(but to behonest, I've fiddled with my keybord so I can type Croatian accents, and convert to Russian alphabet, so I wouldn't be surprised if none of my key-combinations are in their origional place )

So using 'Touche' (toosh) is okay? Me and a friend were having a discussion/debate/petty argument over this. She was insistant that I should say 'Touché', and I was (fairly) sure 'touche' was okay.

Thanks all
__________________
I wish there were some giant, economy-size asprin tablet that would work on international headaches. But there isn't. The only cure is patience with reason mixed in. - Lyndon B. Johnson.

Member of the Clarendon Blades.
Aoife is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2003, 05:55 PM   #8
Armorer
 
DHCJr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,514
DHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond repute
When I use Ctrl-Alt-e, I get €. When I want accents and other special character, I first put in the special character using the Ctrl key followed by the letter. Here are two examples. For é, I first press Ctrl-‘. Nothing appears to happen, then I just type in e and é appear. For ô, I first press Ctrl-Shift-^ and again nothing appears. They I type in o and ô appear. I know this gets complicated, but it always works for me. The same can be done for ñ and other simple accents. Russian and Croatian I won't even attempt.
__________________
Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr.
DHCJr@juno.com

To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)

Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules.
DHCJr is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2003, 06:08 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Boo Boo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 784
Boo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of light
I know, Iwant2bafencer, but not much of what "Mr Touché" says makes sense (including his presiding ;-)).

"Touche" is the way that most people who complete seriously in the UK would say it. I guess that "Touché" is also valid, but sounds a little "cliché" (a bit Musketeer like...), but that may be my personal opinion... :-)

So both of you are right, but you probably have the "fashoinable" edge over your friend...

Boo
Boo Boo is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2003, 04:24 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Stryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 538
Stryder will become famous soon enoughStryder will become famous soon enough
Touche' means "I have been touched" you would say it if you were trying to indicate the fact that you had been hit. It does not mean that a valid point has been scored on you. Both fencers are frequently touched yet only one scores a point.

Touche (without the accent that won't work on my laptop) means simply "touch" modern fencers say touche more often because we count touches as points for, rather than points against as was done in the past.

Let me 'splain...no. There is too much. Let me sum up:

Say touche (without the "ay") unless you want to sound like a pompous poof. In that case say Touchaaayyy and wave a hankerchief under your nose.
__________________
http://www.geocities.com/strydermike
Stryder is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2003, 05:59 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Boo Boo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 784
Boo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of light
Well that's one way of saying what I did, but with rather less tact... (said with tact in case anyone who reads these boards believes that yelling "Touché!" after every hit is ones of their greatest fencing assets....).

My apologies if I caused any confusion: my clubmate is indeed wrong when he yells "Touché" for something he considers his hit - but then again, he lives in his own little fencing world...).

Boo

Last edited by Boo Boo; 01-21-2003 at 06:03 AM.
Boo Boo is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2003, 09:23 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Aoife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 232
Aoife will become famous soon enoughAoife will become famous soon enough
lol- thanks all. That's great (my friend isn't so happy, but retains that she can be a
Quote:
pompous poof
if she wants to be )
__________________
I wish there were some giant, economy-size asprin tablet that would work on international headaches. But there isn't. The only cure is patience with reason mixed in. - Lyndon B. Johnson.

Member of the Clarendon Blades.
Aoife is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2003, 10:36 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
lochinvar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Posts: 2,993
lochinvar has a reputation beyond reputelochinvar has a reputation beyond reputelochinvar has a reputation beyond reputelochinvar has a reputation beyond reputelochinvar has a reputation beyond reputelochinvar has a reputation beyond reputelochinvar has a reputation beyond reputelochinvar has a reputation beyond reputelochinvar has a reputation beyond reputelochinvar has a reputation beyond reputelochinvar has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to lochinvar
In sum:

Say "touche" (toosh) if you want to claim that YOU hit THEM.
Say "touché" (tooshay) if you want to acknowledtge that THEY hit YOU.

Don't say anything in French at all if you don't want to be thought a "pompous poof".

Say instead, "Nice one!" or "Who's your daddy, b****?" or "Oh, man, I can't believe it!" or "Bogus!!" or just simply "Argh!"

Under no circumstances scream "Et la!" (or Aye-la! or any of the many variant spellings) at the top of your lungs regardless of who touched whom--that's just plain annoying.

Last edited by lochinvar; 01-21-2003 at 10:47 AM.
lochinvar is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2003, 10:48 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Boo Boo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 784
Boo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of lightBoo Boo is a glorious beacon of light
The yelling/screaming thing is always a contraversal point (especially since I haven't screamed or yelled since 20th November - my last competition...) - lots of threads on it.

Boo
(should have the opportunity in a couple of weeks though... )
Boo Boo is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2003, 11:55 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
damianip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 1,191
damianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond reputedamianip has a reputation beyond repute
When bouting at the club, I love to annoy my team mates by switching from my usual, guttural, mono syllabic yell to the dreaded "opahhh!!!".

If successful, I am rewarded with a "touché" dripping in sarcasm.

If you don't like what people do when they get a touch, don't let them get the touch.



Paolo
__________________
"He is a man of splendid abilities but utterly corrupt. He shines and stinks like rotten mackerel by moonlight." "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
damianip is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2003, 12:11 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Tomas N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Meadville, PA
Posts: 630
Tomas N has a reputation beyond reputeTomas N has a reputation beyond reputeTomas N has a reputation beyond reputeTomas N has a reputation beyond reputeTomas N has a reputation beyond reputeTomas N has a reputation beyond reputeTomas N has a reputation beyond reputeTomas N has a reputation beyond reputeTomas N has a reputation beyond reputeTomas N has a reputation beyond reputeTomas N has a reputation beyond repute
One thing I learned from watching the WC finals in men's epee this year is that it's "ok" to rip your mask off and jump for joy regardless of whether you've hit or been hit. Apparently double-touches are particularly gratifying and warrant some serious fist pumping. (Hey everyone wins from a double touch!) Since this seems like a gracious and uniform method of celebrating (or acknowledging) a hit, I'm considering starting to do it too.
Tomas N is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2003, 03:14 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Aoife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 232
Aoife will become famous soon enoughAoife will become famous soon enough
Quote:
One thing I learned from watching the WC finals in men's epee this year is that it's "ok" to rip your mask off and jump for joy regardless of whether you've hit or been hit.
lol- I can see eyes being lost here.....
__________________
I wish there were some giant, economy-size asprin tablet that would work on international headaches. But there isn't. The only cure is patience with reason mixed in. - Lyndon B. Johnson.

Member of the Clarendon Blades.
Aoife is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2003, 08:43 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Singapore
Posts: 366
epeefencer74 has a spectacular aura aboutepeefencer74 has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via ICQ to epeefencer74
Or you could simple say "Yes!" with lots of conviction when you score a hit or "S**t" when you get hit, Or even "My god how did I miss that"
__________________
In Deum Veritas, In Deum Caritas
epeefencer74 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2003, 09:59 PM   #19
Curmudgeon-in-Chief
 
Inquartata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,534
Inquartata has a reputation beyond reputeInquartata has a reputation beyond reputeInquartata has a reputation beyond reputeInquartata has a reputation beyond reputeInquartata has a reputation beyond reputeInquartata has a reputation beyond reputeInquartata has a reputation beyond reputeInquartata has a reputation beyond reputeInquartata has a reputation beyond reputeInquartata has a reputation beyond reputeInquartata has a reputation beyond repute
What got a chuckle from me while watching the WC sabre tapes was the several occasions in which a fencer did the whole expectant fist-pumping thing...and then three seconds later raised an index finger to acknowledge being touched.

Now, either you know you're touched, in which case you oughtn't be doing a victory pantomime...or you really think the touch was yours, in which case you oughtn't be acknowledging....
Inquartata is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2003, 01:17 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
pammie003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 247
pammie003 is a jewel in the roughpammie003 is a jewel in the roughpammie003 is a jewel in the rough
I've seen a lot of opponents simply patting the place where I have scored a touch and have started to do the same myself, but that could be because all of the members of my new club are German, and I have a hard time hearing and understanding them with all of my gear on. They also seem to get the idea that they've scored a hit when I talk to myself in English (usually after some incredible stupidity on my part).
Back in Canada, "nice one", etc. always seemed to suffice.
pammie003 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Winning the phrase The Bayer Hunter Discussion Archive 4 05-25-2001 09:22 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:46 PM.


(c) 1995 - 2007 Fencing Net; Fencing.Net, fdn, Fencing101, Epee101, Foil101, Sabre101 are all trademarks of Fencing.Net, LLC.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. - Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5 -    Medieval Swords from the online Replica Sword Shop