Parents on & off the strip

[Repechage]

The mother of a boy I know is taking him to a youth tennis tournament this weekend. She says that the parents in that sport are unbelievable--they have taken to putting Blackberry devices in their children's bags and sending them text messages at the break, so they've had to bar pagers etc. Interestingly, she said they have made English the official language so Eastern European parents can't scream instructions to their kids from the stands.

I once went to a wrestling tournament where a father was down pounding the floor just outside the ring bellowing so loudly at his son that it was sort of like witnessing someone having a psychotic break.

Frankly, I haven't had severe problems with parents on the strip. I did once have a woman screaming at me while I fenced her daughter, and I find it hilarious when parents insist on helping a 10-year-old hook up and taking care of everything for them.

At least one (high-school age) fencer I know likes to have her parents there so she can fight with them while she's fencing. Her mother has decided she can't take it any more so her father goes with her.

Anybody have any interesting anecdotes, as a parent yourself or from a different vantage point? What's your view of the role of parents at tournaments?

[remise]

I answered a thread like that. Look at the one called, "Competition, Ethics, etc." Both of my children fence foil, while I fence epee. I'm way older than most of the moms, and it upsets me to see the anger a lot of parents put forth. I think parents need to realize that this sport, like any, is about fun, and if they can't behave responsibly in the audience, they have no place inside the fencing center. Those who can not control themselves should remain in their cars.

[darius]

In Saratoga, a fairly well-known fencer/ref/coach from foreign lands was loudly instructing his son/student to "CIRCLE SIX CRAZY!!!" during the bout.

Whenever the child stopped windmilling, he would yell "CIRCLE SIX CRAZY!!!" again.

This went on and on, while the other 10 year old slowly picked him apart.

As an impartial observer of the rules, it took nearly all of my willpower to keep from bursting into laughter.

darius

[Inquartata]

Yield to the impulse. Laughter is probably the only thing which could shame these people into silence. Ridicule will often do what scolding will not....

[Sabresque]

I know a mother who's terrible. She's been carded at least twice out of the times I've fenced her daughter. One time it was a red card... giving me the point. She screams at me, and at the ref constantly (the coach is also almost as bad sometimes). Needless to say, it's backfired on her. Now it just makes me want to beat her more. I don't know... it just is wierd to me that they sometimes don't realize they're hurting their children by going crazy like that.

[oiuyt]

Originally posted by Sabresque
I know a mother who's terrible. She's been carded at least twice out of the times I've fenced her daughter. One time it was a red card... giving me the point.

How does a spectator being carded generate a point? How does a spectator get carded without it being a red (or technically a red equivalent)? If fencer X's mother/coach/best friend/random person watching disturbs order the SPECTATOR is censured, not the fencer (assuming individual event, team events are slightly different). There is no legitimate way for a fencer to be penalized for the actions of someone else.

and I find it hilarious when parents insist on helping a 10-year-old hook up and taking care of everything for them.

My college team usual hooks each other up. Clearly we're talking about 18-22 year olds who are fully capable of doing this for themselves. It's nice. Let's you worry about what you're going to be doing, builds esprit de corps, keeps everyone involved, etc. Why NOT have other people help when hooking up. It's not always saying that the fencer isn't capable of doing it without assistance.

-B :)

[thyme_daniels]

my father is a fencer, so it is a plesure having him near the strip because he can offer excellent advice, and my mom knows when to cheer, so she is okay too, but i was at a tournament once, when i was advncing and making my attack, and somebody's parent (not my opponent's) stepped on the cord coming out of the reel, so i was stopped dead in my attack and i lost the touch (oh well, it's pathetic i still remember this). also, at a different tournament, i saw a parent kick out the connecting cord in the back of the reel that hooks it up tot he box...so of course none of the person's points registered. i walked over and pointed it out, and they fixed it, and the woman, she was like, "oh....sorry..." they can be kinda dumb sometimes, and in the way if they dont know what they are doing.

[Iwant2bafencer]

When you mix parents, and their kids sports, the out come can be quite strange at times. I know I've seen my share of screamers, kickers, arguers, and most everything else, and it's very bothersome when you're out there on the field (or the strip), trying to concentrate, and you've got some parent yelling (in softball in this case) to their kid "Catch it! Back up! Keep your mit open!" even when the ball isn't even in play. Though it's just a bothersome if nto more so to have some parent yelling at you for a call you made Even when it's in their child/team's favor! I ref soccer from spring through summer, and into the first month or so of fall. I'm soon going to try and ref indoor as well. I tell ya parents go crazy when their kid misses a goal or doesn't kick the ball hard enough, and the kids I ref are 10 and under. 5 yr olds are getting yelled at for not being competitive enough. It's just a game for cyring out loud! Every week I would have some parent either jumping down my throat, the kids throat, or the coach's throat for this reason or that, and most of them don't even understand the rules in the first place.

As for laughing at them, I've had that provoke them to yell more. Strange yes, but it happens, as does riduculing them. I've gotten to where if someone is yell ing regardless to who I'll step over at the quarter or half time, and say simple "It's just a game ma'am/sir, they're just kids, and this is just AYSO (not very competative), just let them play the game, and have some fun, cheer for your team."
If they continue to yell or rifual myself or the other team, then I give them a warning telling them "Look ma'am/sir, I'm going to have to ask you to lighten up, and stop yelling so much, just a friendly warning." which usually does the trick. If not then I begin to get angry, and tell them the next time they say something rude or vulger (yes vulger to their 5 yr olds) then I'll either end the game, and they'll have to be the one bearing the idea that the game was ended on their behavior. Or ask them to leave the field. I'm happy to say that so far, I have never had to pull a red or a yellow card on a parent!

Anyway, that's my 12 cents (I think it's a little more then 2 cents)

It's just a game! Have fun with it!

--------------------
Carpe Diem
Ad Asha

[drayke]

When I was a youth fencer my mother quietly sat to the side and chatted with the various adults we'd gotten to know. Once I was in high school, she skipped the local tourneys and was present only for the larger ones and I don't recall her ever screaming anything but her support was ever present. To my shame now I once told her not to come watch as it would make me nervous and I'll always regret that.


As for helping fencers hook up, I've noticed that that almost never happens now, and when I've offered I get strange looks. I found this strange when I started back fencing, as it was such common courtsey before.

[Repechage]

Originally posted by oiuyt
How does a spectator being carded generate a point? How does a spectator get carded without it being a red (or technically a red equivalent)? If fencer X's mother/coach/best friend/random person watching disturbs order the SPECTATOR is censured, not the fencer (assuming individual event, team events are slightly different). There is no legitimate way for a fencer to be penalized for the actions of someone else.

I asked a natonally-ranked referee about this today, oddly enough. There is one case where a non-fencer (usually a coach) can earn a red card for the fencerr - "unjustified apeal."

As for hooking one another up, that's great for teammates, but when it's your mom or dad plugging you in, plugging in you weapon, handing you your mask, and even helping you on with it, it doesn't instill a sense of independence or impress your opponents. In my opinion, the kids should be helping one another.

[Peach]

My daughter would have killed me if I ever tried to fuss ove her on the strip in any way, includiing plug her in, even when she was 11.

[Fencing Mom]

In my experience, fencing is not in the same ballpark (field or court) as other sports when it comes to parental audience involvement. I have been on the sidelines of soccer games and backstage at dance recitals and have certainly witnessed inappropriate behavior from parents who should know better. I have NOT seen this in fencing. In approximately three years of attending national tournaments, I have occasionally seen overzealousness, but not rudeness. My kid's fencing has never been interfered with by another parent (or me!).

Actually, I believe most parents (those who were never fencers) do not pay ENOUGH attention to the sport or their kid at local tournaments. They are overwhelmed by the flashing lights, strange equipment and inexplicable rules (ROW). When parents are not educated about the sport, they leave decision making concerning their kids up to others. I have seen local tournament officials who do not have kids' best interests at heart and who, quite frankly, do not even make good fencing decisions. I've witnessed wonderful athletes being taught bad technique, and that technique is rewarded at the local level. When the kid goes to his or her first national tournament, the kid is devestated, because what is a touch back home is not a touch at a national level. Eventually, that kid quits fencing. An educated parent would find a new coach, fight for better local refereeing, work for a better division, travel to a better tournament.

As for parents fussing over their kids and helping them hook up , there are as many good styles of parenting as there are ways of scoring a touch. As long as a parent hooking up a kid doesn't interfere with the kid's opponent, what's the difference?

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Repechage
As for hooking one another up, that's great for teammates, but when it's your mom or dad plugging you in, plugging in you weapon, handing you your mask, and even helping you on with it, it doesn't instill a sense of independence or impress your opponents. In my opinion, the kids should be helping one another.

Maybe they are playing a head game with you, making you overconfident.

-m

[DHCJr]

This is not about parenting per se but about hooking up. The couch I worked with mostly encouraged fencers not to hook up themselves, but to let others do that. Their job is to study their opponent. Are they Right or Left Handed, what type of handle are they using, tall or short, size and anything else that will help. Each person has a job to perform. Considering this was at a college and most of the fencers had no fencing before arriving, the number of All-Americans were rather impressive.

[Sabresque]

very sorry, lol, I was being a ditz again. I don't think it gave me a point... (maybe it did, I can't really remember) but there was a red card.

[Inquartata]

Carded the spectator only, I'm sure ( though I'm not sure what purpose is served by carding someone who can't be penalized ).

If spectator/coach behavior could make for touches against the fencer, someone would have hit on the idea of sending accomplices to be obnoxious at their opponent's end of the strip and on their "behalf" by now, I'm sure...

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Inquartata
Carded the spectator only, I'm sure ( though I'm not sure what purpose is served by carding someone who can't be penalized ).

It is equivalent of a group III card. thus, the point is that if the spectator does it again, they will be ejected.

If spectator/coach behavior could make for touches against the fencer, someone would have hit on the idea of sending accomplices to be obnoxious at their opponent's end of the strip and on their "behalf" by now, I'm sure...

Which is exactly why it isn't that way in the rules. The fencer should NOT be penalized for somebody else's actions.

-m

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Repechage
I asked a natonally-ranked referee about this today, oddly enough. There is one case where a non-fencer (usually a coach) can earn a red card for the fencerr - "unjustified apeal."

don't know about the rules interpretation here, but at the very least, unjustified appeal is a group I. thus, yellow if first penalty, not red.

-m

[graham]

Fencing Mom, thanks - you said it well.

For those few parents who interfere in one way or another (I haven't seen it, either) there should be a requirement that they take up fencing. Then one of two things would happen: 1) they would realize that it is a difficult sport and would temper their behaviour (some of them anyway - there will always be morons around), or 2) they would realize how much fun it is, take up the sport for themselves, and then be too busy to mess with their kids (and would then have to deal with criticism from their offspring - how well would that go over?).

Graham

[Repechage]

Originally posted by epeemike81
don't know about the rules interpretation here, but at the very least, unjustified appeal is a group I. thus, yellow if first penalty, not red.

-m

Didn't say it was first penalty. You folks seem to enjoy arguing, huh?