Sabre - Why not just hit with the edge?

[Rabid Monk]

This thread is a quagmire of strange. Some good posts in the mix, but mostly noise.



Still, I'll add a bit of noise:

This drives me nuts.

"A katana would beat a fencing foil"

<snip>

My standard response when somebody poses such a question is to say that the victor will be the one who knows the most about using both weapons.

Sun zu was right, you know.

If you know your opponents' weapon, you'll know what to expect.
If you know your own, you'll know what to do.





As a final thought (and referencing earlier pages):
I recall reading somewhere (It think it was either The Secret History of the Sword or By The Sword) that the upper thighs were actually target in sabre until the late 1920's (or was it the 30's?).
However, I cannot find any sort of corroborating evidence. I would love to find old rulebooks or what-have-you from the early part of the 20th century to check.
But I have no idea where (or if) I can find such things.

If anyone has suggestions or input, please do let me know.

[Bonehead]

My standard response when somebody poses such a question is to say that the victor will be the one who knows the most about using both weapons.

Sun zu was right, you know.

If you know your opponents' weapon, you'll know what to expect.
If you know your own, you'll know what to do.

Or perhaps a better response might be, "that's a stupid question". It's like asking who would win between a football player and a hockey player at a fictional ill defined mix of football and hockey.

[SJCFU#2]

In 1891 rule book for the AFLA (predecessor to the USFA) had all of this to say about saber (I've bolded the applicable portion):

"The sabre competition shall be governed by the same rules as the foil competition, except that a cut or thrust on any part of the body above the hip shall count.

"Sabre blades shall not be more than 33 inches long."

Of course back then the entire rule book was only four pages long. Plus the AFLA was a bunch of amateurs so it's entirely possible that they got it wrong.

It's also possible that more than one set of rules existed at the time (I seem to recall reading somewhere that the French and Italians both maintained their own sets of rules well into the 20th century).

[Bonehead]

In 1891 rule book for the AFLA (predecessor to the USFA) had all of this to say about saber (I've bolded the applicable portion):

"The sabre competition shall be governed by the same rules as the foil competition, except that a cut or thrust on any part of the body above the hip shall count.

"Sabre blades shall not be more than 33 inches long."

Of course back then the entire rule book was only four pages long. Plus the AFLA was a bunch of amateurs so it's entirely possible that they got it wrong.

It's also possible that more than one set of rules existed at the time (I seem to recall reading somewhere that the French and Italians both maintained their own sets of rules well into the 20th century).

Whenever I see your user name I see it as STFU.

Also I'm pretty sure the AFLA wasn't representative of the rest of the world.

[SJCFU#2]

Also I'm pretty sure the AFLA wasn't representative of the rest of the world.

Probably not - most likely they were merely basing everything on what they had heard from European fencing instructors who had migrated to the New World and set up shop in New York City (and who probably weren't the best in their field, otherwise they probably wouldn't have felt the need to relocate). However since there was no equivalent to the FIE at the time it's difficult to say if anyone was really in a position to speak for "the rest of the world".

None the less it is one point of data from a documented source - which is more than can be said for much of what has been posted here ("I remember reading somewhere once ...."). Hopefully someone else can produce a countering point of data from another documented source.

Whenever I see your user name I see it as STFU.

I'm sure the South Jersey Federal Credit Union would be flattered (not that I have any connection with that particular organization).

[Rabid Monk]

Or perhaps a better response might be, "that's a stupid question". It's like asking who would win between a football player and a hockey player at a fictional ill defined mix of football and hockey.

Yeah, but I figure it's just a naive question from an interested outsider, and try not to be a dick.

In 1891 rule book for the AFLA (predecessor to the USFA) had all of this to say about saber (I've bolded the applicable portion):

"The sabre competition shall be governed by the same rules as the foil competition, except that a cut or thrust on any part of the body above the hip shall count.

"Sabre blades shall not be more than 33 inches long."

Of course back then the entire rule book was only four pages long. Plus the AFLA was a bunch of amateurs so it's entirely possible that they got it wrong.

It's also possible that more than one set of rules existed at the time (I seem to recall reading somewhere that the French and Italians both maintained their own sets of rules well into the 20th century).

Thank you. That helps.
And now you know why I asked for corroboration and feedback on the claim...

[Bonehead]

Yeah, but I figure it's just a naive question from an interested outsider, and try not to be a dick

Normally I get it from people who have some sort of light interest in some other sword related thing. i.e. "My broadsword would cut right through that foil".

Mostly I just want to nip that conversation in the bud.

[sabreteur]

I think they should be followed about by a chap clacking coconut shells together. The public expects this or they won't be interested in watching fencing, I don't know why people can't see that.

K O'N

My God... I had no idea that Inquartata had a twin brother.