Reading fencing books as a beginner?

[axfv]

I've been fencing foil for about a year and heard somewhere that it's not advised for beginners to read books on fencing.

I wanted to get this book:
http://images.bookdepository.co.uk/a...1840243314.jpg

but will it be counter-productive? Should I just stick to learning from the coach and bouting?

[Thierry]

I've been fencing foil for about a year and heard somewhere that it's not advised for beginners to read books on fencing.

I wanted to get this book:
http://images.bookdepository.co.uk/a...1840243314.jpg

but will it be counter-productive? Should I just stick to learning from the coach and bouting?

Well reading books can compliment your learning, but you might want to take what you read with a pinch of salt, as your coach probably has his own program which may differ from whatever that is stated in the book.

[mrbiggs]

I've been fencing foil for about a year and heard somewhere that it's not advised for beginners to read books on fencing.

I wanted to get this book:
http://images.bookdepository.co.uk/a...1840243314.jpg

but will it be counter-productive? Should I just stick to learning from the coach and bouting?

It's hard to judge a book by its cover, and harder to judge a book by a tiny thumbnail of the cover, so I won't pass judgement on that book.

EDIT: Actually the internet is too awesome so I was able to find the book and read an excerpt on Amazon. It was published in 2003, so fairly recent, and it seems to mostly contain good foil drills. However, the issues I mention below in properly communicating fencing actions through text are still present; if I were you I'd look it up and make sure it's information I'm interested in.

That said, you are correct that it's not advised to read books on fencing, especially as a beginner. Right off the bat, in 2005 the rules for the timing of a hit in foil were changed considerably. Any book written before 2005 is going to be written for a slightly different rule set, which has slightly different applicable tactics and strategies.

Then, the fact is that most good fencing coaches don't write books, and many fencing books are not written by good coaches. Some books are very good. Most are not. And it's really hard to judge the book unless you already have a good idea of what you're doing in fencing.

Third, even very good books often fall short because it's extremely difficult to describe fencing actions in writing. I can write that an extension should be "smooth and accelerating, hitting target with the fall of the foot," but that description doesn't do the action justice like a demonstration does. And furthermore, any misinterpretation you have will go uncorrected since the book can't see you and critique your movements.

So yes, if possible, stick to the coach and bouting. If you really want to get a book, they can be handy as a reference for technique or as a source for new ideas in your fencing, but make sure you get a good book. Ask your coach if there's any he recommends. Personally I don't know of any up to date book on foil, but that's not to say there isn't one.

And please don't get anything by Nick Evangelista. He has published a large percentage of the books on fencing and has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. I have several of his books and they are literally not worth the paper they're printed on. I know it's weird to warn you against a particular author, but his works are very widespread.

[Craig]

As long as you are using books to supplement the practical experience of *doing* it, then you're fine.

Reading about fencing will increase your understanding of the sport and that's not a bad thing.

Having the experience of group and individual lessons + drills and bouting will help you understand the ideas put forth in the books a bit better.

Craig

[erooMynohtnA]

Most fencing books are, at best, useless. I wouldn't recommend reading any to a beginner, but you've been fencing a year, read whatever you want. It's not going to improve your fencing, but you might find some of the stuff interesting.

[noodle]

the problem with books for beginners is that learning fencing theory requires a lot of seeing and doing. it is difficult to translate into words, and the words aren't an efficient way to convey what they're describing.

but once you get past that and everyone understands theory and concepts and terms, then reading books on higher level fencing becomes much easier.

[prototoast]

Why aren't there any good fencing books for beginners? There are good beginner books for most other sports. Is there something about fencing that makes it particularly unfit for useful beginner books, or has a good book simply not come around?

[Thierry]

Why aren't there any good fencing books for beginners? There are good beginner books for most other sports. Is there something about fencing that makes it particularly unfit for useful beginner books, or has a good book simply not come around?

http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/The...o_Fencing.html

I find this book extremely comprehensive, well written and relevant. It's written by one of the most successful coaches, Emil Beck, who's coached many World Championship medalists, and many other sports science experts in Germany. The only problem with the book is that it may be slightly too complicated, with many sports science specific terms being thrown here and there and the information in the book is incredibly dense. However, I still find it the best fencing book written so far, and the only one worth paying for; fencing books aren't exactly what you call affordable.

[Inquartata]

When I first started---a foil class, unfortunately, as that was all that was available---the coach had us buy and read Alaux's book.

When I got to university and signed up for a fencing class---again, foil only ---the teacher assigned...Alaux's book.

So it seems that some coaches feel that books are not "useless at best" for beginners. Personally I lean toward "they are", but then I'm often told that I'm not a coach and shouldn't opine about coaching.

It does have to be the right book in any event. And they do lose currency pretty quickly these days.

[jfarmer]

The book that I've been using and recommending for the last few years is Elaine Cheris' - Fencing: Steps to Success. It's well organized with decent drawings and activities for beginners.

[leosu1978]

I'm currently reading a book by Nick Evangelista and I happen to find it quite interesting. I think people need to take books with a grain of salt. Every author is an individual and as such, they each have their own opinions. Just because someone's views may differ from yours has no bearing on whether or not their views are any less valid or important. Common sense tells you that your instructors guidance is the most important thing while training. However, reading about other opinions and experiences will not impede the readers progress in any way. If anything it will expand their horizons and allow them to think of things in a way they may never have otherwise.

[noodle]

I'm currently reading a book by Nick Evangelista and I happen to find it quite interesting. I think people need to take books with a grain of salt. Every author is an individual and as such, they each have their own opinions. Just because someone's views may differ from yours has no bearing on whether or not their views are any less valid or important. Common sense tells you that your instructors guidance is the most important thing while training. However, reading about other opinions and experiences will not impede the readers progress in any way. If anything it will expand their horizons and allow them to think of things in a way they may never have otherwise.

the isssue is that nick evangelista is a classical/historical fencer who writes books aimed at persuading people away from the sport of fencing into his realm. if he would present the entire spectrum of fencing on equal footing, then he wouldn't be as maligned in the community as he is.

[Inquartata]

Or just stick to his own bailiwick.

I just finished reading Borysiuk's book on modern sabre. He talks some about the history of sabre, but nowhere does he knock what it used to be in order to build up what it is now. And he doesn't even mention contemporary classical sabre. Most fencing authors don't go out of their way to sneer at other kinds of fencing. Evangelista does, and he's obstreperous about doing it.

[axfv]

fyi, much of The Complete Guide to Fencing is up on Google Books. I've been checking it out.

[Thierry]

fyi, much of The Complete Guide to Fencing is up on Google Books. I've been checking it out.

That book is very good

[mrbiggs]

the isssue is that nick evangelista is a classical/historical fencer who writes books aimed at persuading people away from the sport of fencing into his realm. if he would present the entire spectrum of fencing on equal footing, then he wouldn't be as maligned in the community as he is.

Also, the techniques he presents simply aren't very good.

As an analogy, if a high school student wrote a book on middle school math, it wouldn't necessarily be wrong, and you could probably get something out of reading it, but it's really someone writing about a subject where they don't know a whole lot. To not even recognize the advantages and disadvantages of a pistol grip is so basic...there are a very large number of glaring holes in his writing. He does get some of the basics right, but why not read a book by somebody else? His is a different perspective mostly in that it's an uninformed perspective.

[mrbiggs]

To the OP, I was thinking earlier today that something you might find more effective is videos with commentary. Search for a few on youtube; they vary in scope and depth and you might find one that you consider helpful. I don't think any deal with things like basic lunge technique, but there's a lot of up to date information on there you might find helpful. User CyrusOfChaos there (who has the same screenname here) is a good place to start.

[edgemontfencing]

im getting a few books that i think might be pretty good for most fencers
Fencing: Techniques of Foil, Epee and Sabre
The Art and Science of Fencing
Strength Training for Fencers

[Palisadeur]

I just received this one by post, which I heartily recommend:
The Dueling Sword by Claude La Marche

Not at all a book on modern sport fencing, but a treatise on actual dueling for blood with the epee; however, it is written with such parochial frenchness, such jolly continental humour and passion and swiving that it's a remarkably inspiring read in favour of the art of swordplay in any context.

My favourite bit so far reads thus:

. But we trust that he who holds an épée in hand must be able to proportion
the wound he wants to inflict to the insult he has endured, and if we consider
as a great misfortune the death of a man as a result of a futile quarrel, we
must also consider that it is regrettable for a man of honor to see reparation
by blood stopped by an insignificant thrust, thrusting the fingers or the hand
of the one who has insulted him.

Stirring stuff!

pd

[noodle]

im getting a few books that i think might be pretty good for most fencers
Fencing: Techniques of Foil, Epee and Sabre
The Art and Science of Fencing
Strength Training for Fencers

you'll find that the art and science of fencing will try and contradict the other two books you're getting.