New National Schedule Called Into Question - Discussion

[Capt. Slo-mo]

The National Coaches should not have the right to do whatever they want, whenever they want...

Really? Who is the hapless soul who will bring this shocking change of affairs to their attention?

[DrWhiteTX]

1. It will likely block Cuban participation unless the US and Cuba un-thaw the current diplomatic relationships in the next six months. For those of you not aware of this the Cubans have historically fielded very competitive teams, particularly in epee. I am told the Cuban teams could be a very significant obstacle to the US securing more places in the upcoming Olympics.
best regards

This is a non-issue. The Cubans will come. Just as we have fencers that fenced in IRAN in the last couple of years. If we do not facilitate their VISAs or in anyway impede them from participating it puts us at jeopardy with the FIE (and the IOC). An issue occured a number of years ago with a world cup in Syria and I believe the FIE intervened.

I also agree that if that is in anyway a strategy it paintes our strategists as a bunch of woosies. I would like to know who is thinking in that way so I can smack them in the head next time I see them.

Also our crapy relationships with Venezuela will not stop them from coming either. In epee both are powerhouses. And I look forward to seeing all of them in action. I would hope and expect our fencers want them there too. Any other victory would be hollow.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

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- Many folks called out Heretic on his Herr Dilworth comment the first time around. If everyone where to jump on every instance of his inappropriate comments this forum wouldn't contain much else. If you fail to take the bait perhaps he will stop casting it out and all that will be left are his valuable insights?

Might want to re-read this paragraph and think it through again. On several levels.

- It is amazing that US coaches will designate events on consecutive weekends thousands of miles apart but can allow two events on consecutive weekends in the same place.

Does make one wonder exactly who was being protected from what.

[Soberin]

No, Greg was not handed a mess and told to clean it up, he added to it and simply kept the people out who should have been in the loop, who should have been there in making this decision. The National Coaches decieded at the Zonals this year, while the competition is going on, that they want to change the National Schedule. Kalle and Greg have a conversation after speaking with the NC, after the Zonals and after the bid is awarded, then Greg feels he has the authority to change the National Schedule. Nobody was asleep with this as you claim. I pointed out the problems a year ago and followed up in April when I discovered that the new bid being put together by the National office went against the recommendation of holding one ofter the other.
Next, I recommended that the NAC be placed back in the schedule and we should not loose a NAC at the whim of the NC or ED. I also recommended if the new BOD chooses to retain the Championships in April for the Div.1 then we should add the Div.1 NAC into December and I made that recommendation To Alex Wood the chair of the Athlete's Council and now he is having that discussion with Mr. Dilworth. In addition, unless the Zonals begin on day 5 of our Nationals instead of day 3 as the bid shows, which was not shown to the EC or the BOD, we will have our juniors at a disadvantage, which comprise of about half of those who qualify to compete at the Zonals.
So, I have recommended suggestions to correct the problem and retain the Div.1 NAC, I have stated and will press the new BOD members not to allow the ED change anything that the BOD has adopted without their approval and I will continue to press to space the schedules at our Summer Nationals as not to disadvantage our fencers.

Mark Stasinos

Well all I can say is thank goodness that someone with access to the "inner sanctum" is doing the right thing. The rest of us just sit here in frustration.

[Soberin]

There have been quite a few suggestions in this thread:

1. Move the Pan Ams until later, August
2. At SNs, have the Div I Championships on one weekend, then the Pan Ams the next
3. Restore the April NAC to a regular Div I event
4. Hold Div I Championships sometime between April and July at a smaller venue
5. Hold a Div I NAC in December
6. Using a strength factor award Div I points at ROCs
7. Expand qualifying paths for Div I Championships
8. Hold single weapon or single gender Div I Championships

etc.

A very nice summary of the options presented here. Think anyone other than us will read them?

[TensingNorgay]

A very nice summary of the options presented here. Think anyone other than us will read them?

Soberin:

As one who posts relatively little compared to most on this thread I would suggest the following in response to your rhetorical question:

Anyone and everyone who wants the Division I events restored to the previous schedule needs to contact their athletic representative. I know Rafael Suarez has reached out to all the foil fencers on the Senior Points.

I would hope the other representatives are doing the same. If not contact them directly. Their information is on the USFA web site. Insist that they press to have the schedule restored. Share your suggestions with them.

In addition, perhaps if enough members of the USFA contacted Greg and the USFA administration with polite but strong opinions and constructive suggestions we can convince them to restore the schedule.

I for one think incrementally: first we get the schedule fixed, then we fix the leadership problems, lastly we address the structural flaws in the USFA. If we expend and dissipate our energy going after big change, we will loose sight of the immediate problem.

[mtarascio]

Why Treasurer? Since Greg switched jobs, has the new treasurer even had a chance to screw anything up yet?
If you didn't like this decision, don't hire Christine as ED. She gave us Hang-A-Star, remember...

If Greg resigns his position as ED he becomes treasurer again. I would want his resignation as treasurer.

Where do you get your information that Hang-A-Star was given to us by Christine? She is the one employee of the USFA that has been outstanding in everything she has done from her first day.

[mtarascio]

Why Treasurer? Since Greg switched jobs, has the new treasurer even had a chance to screw anything up yet?
If you didn't like this decision, don't hire Christine as ED. She gave us Hang-A-Star, remember...

If Greg resigns his position as ED he becomes treasurer again. I would want his resignation as treasurer.

Where do you get your information that Hang-A-Star was given to us by Christine? She is the one employee of the USFA that has been outstanding in everything she has done from her first day.

[gladius]

The Discussion to host the Zonals came up about two years ago. In the discussion with the EC it was only discussed to have the zonals follow the Nationals, not to do it in conjunction with our Championships.

Considering that senior zonals in non Olympic years MUST take place in July and August, having them after Summer Nationals was and remains the only sensible and viable option. From the athletes point of view it would be advisable to give them 2-3 weeks rest and recuperation and schedule them at the end of July just like the Euros do (many of them have their senior national championships to which ALL their top athletes compete) at the end of June followed by the European zonals in mid July. Ditto for the Asians. The Africans are usually in August.

In an Olympic year (2012) the calendar will be different for the obvious reason that the Games are in summer, so the zonal qualifying events must take place between April 15 and May 5, 2012. On May 7, 2012, the FIE will notify all NOCs the results of the zonal qualifying events and quota places obtained. The NOCs will have until May 31, 2012, to confirm the quota places obtained, and on June 2, 2012, the FIE will re-allocate the quota places which have not been confirmed by the NOCs.

When the EC met prior to Nationals in June it was stated that we were going ahead with the bid. The Board of Directors where informed of the move but no details were given, no plan laid out, no statical [???] study was done. It seems this was nothing more than, what was thought, a good idea. I know this much none of the major committees were contacted or asked to trouble shoot any potential problems, all of this was done solely by the ED and Christy. There was no discussion at the BOD meeting about removing a NAC or shifting the schedule to put the Div.1 Nationals into April.
In a nut shell, no committees were contacted to work on the logistics of the plan to host the Zonals, the Athletes Council was not contacted and no comparison schedule to see how it will run in conjunction with the Nationals was ever developed, if it had the EC would have seen it and there was only a general announcement to the BOD.

If this description is accurate (I have no reason to believe otherwise) it show the level of incompetence and state of disarray of this organization, from the board and the EC to the national office.

No, Greg was not handed a mess and told to clean it up, he added to it and simply kept the people out who should have been in the loop, who should have been there in making this decision.

Thank you for not using Kurt as a cheap scapegoat.

The National Coaches decieded at the Zonals this year, while the competition is going on, that they want to change the National Schedule. Kalle and Greg have a conversation after speaking with the NC, after the Zonals and after the bid is awarded, then Greg feels he has the authority to change the National Schedule.

It seems evident that we were better off when we thought we were worse off. From the frying pan into the fire, as it were...

I pointed out the problems a year ago and followed up in April when I discovered that the new bid being put together by the National office went against the recommendation of holding one ofter the other.

By "after the other" I suppose you don't mean consecutively. So at least you were one of the thinking persons who felt that senior zonals had to be at the end of July to give time to rest and recover to the athletes, just like every other thinking federation does. How could your sensible recommendations be dismissed and ignored?

So, I have recommended suggestions to correct the problem and retain the Div.1 NAC, I have stated and will press the new BOD members not to allow the ED change anything that the BOD has adopted without their approval and I will continue to press to space the schedules at our Summer Nationals as not to disadvantage our fencers.

I agree with your determination and admire your position but if you could not get your cohorts to see the light when you were part of the power structure, how will you do it, and succeed, now that you are just one of the frustrated us?

Another note to the above. Even though the bid has been accepted by the Pan American Federation, the Zonal Schedule still must be produced by our Association and submitted for their approval and the FIE must approve it as well. How long can this take?
There are efforts to restore the Div.1 NAC but only time will tell if this effort will be successful.

You state what I posted previously. Nothing is or becomes final until the FIE approves. There are many ways and plenty of time to correct this idiocy, but there must be the will to do it.

[AllezCat]

Where do you get your information that Hang-A-Star was given to us by Christine? She is the one employee of the USFA that has been outstanding in everything she has done from her first day.

I worked on the Technology Development Task Force a year and a half ago. Our job was to put together requirements for an online membership, registration, and results system.

Before we even got started, the National Office put out an RFP. Christine put it together. It was essentially cut-and-pasted from USA Taekwondo's RFP. Curiously enough, Christine comes to us from TKD. And Hang-A-Star was staffed by people from TKD. And Hang-A-Star implemented TKD's system.

Among the vendors who responded to this RFP, the TDTF ranked Hang-A-Star about third. The National Office said the final two choices were AskFRED and Hang-A-Star. The TDTF unanimously recommended AskFRED. The National Office chose Hang-A-Star. I don't think you need a slide rule to figure that one out.

Christine may be a fine administrator, but when it comes to making decisions that are in the best interests of the membership, not just the best interests of the National Office, she's got the blinders on like everyone else.

[edew]

While I have no direct proof, I can pretty much claim that the decision to NOT use askFRED was not so much Christine's as some others who hold the strings in this organization.

[mdstasinos]

While I have no direct proof, I can pretty much claim that the decision to NOT use askFRED was not so much Christine's as some others who hold the strings in this organization.

Not true. AllezCat is correct.

Mark Stasinos

[Inquartata]

It amazes me that the USFA thinks people are so stupid that they will fall for anything. In this age of instant communication and F.net, it seems only a matter of time before there is a backlash against those in authority. I feel there may soon be a time when volunteers stop volunteering and refs just stay home.

Aside from that, though...what's to be done? This is the bottom line: What can be done about the situation?

Write, question, complain, sure. But in the end, if the ED and the national coaches can ignore the BoD and most of their own support superstructure and take actions in violation of the Bylaws, what's to force them to heed anyone short of the USOC? Why can't they ignore even "being fired"? Who's going to march in and take them by the elbows and perp-walk them out if they just decide to keep doing what they're doing?

If we thought we were heading for a USOC takeover and reorganization before the last Olympics, it looks to me as though that's all but unavoidable now.

And I'm not sure the result will be better than what we have now. I just wish that we actually had an option short of that.

[oso97]

Not true. AllezCat is correct.

Mark Stasinos

Yes, I concur.
-Former chair of the Technology Development Task Force.

[mtarascio]

Not true. AllezCat is correct.

Mark Stasinos

This may be true or not. All I know, from my experience, Christine has been the one person one could count on. She is an employee and must answer and do what the ED requests. As an employee, she has to represent the company line, sort of like a Vice President must represent the administration.

The questions I have is: How do we fix the situation? What mechanism is there to remove Greg as ED and Kallie as President?

[Soberin]

Aside from that, though...what's to be done? This is the bottom line: What can be done about the situation?

Write, question, complain, sure. But in the end, if the ED and the national coaches can ignore the BoD and most of their own support superstructure and take actions in violation of the Bylaws, what's to force them to heed anyone short of the USOC? Why can't they ignore even "being fired"? Who's going to march in and take them by the elbows and perp-walk them out if they just decide to keep doing what they're doing?

If we thought we were heading for a USOC takeover and reorganization before the last Olympics, it looks to me as though that's all but unavoidable now.

And I'm not sure the result will be better than what we have now. I just wish that we actually had an option short of that.

I'm sure I misunderstand you--are you advocating that the membership complain directly to the USOC? I would think this would be a bad idea, as it would create even more hostility.

[heretic]

Let's see, a duly empowered task force composed of individuals with technology expertise makes an informed recommendation which is summarily rejected by a less qualified employee for no apparent reason.

So VP Marc Stasinos (who is inarguably a leading authority on scheduling, planning for and running NACs and National Championships) red flags problems with potential scheduling well in advance only to be summarily ignored and bypassed by UF Dilworth et al.

(Of course as we all know, there is no cabal)

What then, are disenfranchised citizens to do?

In 2006, when Nancy Anderson was secure in her bunker (att. Godwin police: please parse and let us know if this rises to your standard), refusing to respond to emails as the level of transparency/accountability was infinitely worse than it is today, several renegades (myself included) began circulating a recall petition. Unfortunately for the USFA, we were unable to secure enough signatures so our efforts were for naught. While history confirmed our worse fears, we were publicly vilified and institutionally excommunicated for our initiative.

Unless that section of the bylaws has changed, the right to recall exists. Anyone brave enough?

[hello?]

I'm sure I misunderstand you--are you advocating that the membership complain directly to the USOC? I would think this would be a bad idea, as it would create even more hostility.

No, I don't think he is advocating for anybody to contact the USOC.

[mdstasinos]

No, I don't think he is advocating for anybody to contact the USOC.

This is an internal problem with a schedule. This is not what the Brass at the USOC would consider if we have not first used our own Board to correct the problem. If you want the problem fixed, your voices to be heard, then contact the members of the new Board who will be meeting in two weeks and ask for their voice in correcting the matter at the BOD meeting.

Mark Stasinos

[hello?]

This is an internal problem with a schedule. This is not what the Brass at the USOC would consider if we have not first used our own Board to correct the problem. If you want the problem fixed, your voices to be heard, then contact the members of the new Board who will be meeting in two weeks and ask for their voice in correcting the matter at the BOD meeting.

Mark Stasinos

Correct. Although, as Inquartata suggested, it is hard to imagine that anybody would listen when you yourself were ignored -- as were procedures, bylaws, and several important committees.