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Thread: Men's Foil - 40 touches in 3 minutes

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    Posting Hound oiuyt's Avatar
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    Men's Foil - 40 touches in 3 minutes

    http://www.youtube.com/fievideo#p/search/0/5_3bIQEebJc

    European Championships - MFT L8 match between GBR and GER

    Starting at 1:06:58 on the video the score is 26-20 entering the 9th encounter with Halsted (GBR) on the left and Joppich (GER) on the right. 40 touches (and 21 minutes real time) later the match ends.

    On a related note, the FIE Video channel on youtube is a great source for watching high level fencing.

    -B
    "Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

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    Senior Member IanSerotkin's Avatar
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    Incidentally, at 1:19:20 there's a good example of a "two-for-one" action where Joppich earns two points--one for the attack and a second on a red card for Halsted covering target with his mask.
    Last edited by IanSerotkin; 07-22-2010 at 12:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanSerotkin View Post
    Incidentally, at 1:19:20 there's a good example of a "two-for-one" action where Joppich earns two points--one for the attack and a second on a red card for Halsted covering target with his mask.
    is that really a "two-for-one" action, though? its more like a one-for-one action with a penalty, since if the same action happened without an existing yellow, it would only be one touch

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    Senior Member Superscribe's Avatar
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    That one's for lampard you bloody remise monkey's!!!!!!!

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    Everyone relax cause I got it....

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    Dev
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    Was expecting shootout. Got knife fight instead. Oh well, that's Joppich for you. And the entire GBR foil team, for that matter (although Kruse seems to tape his knife to the end of a broomstick).

    Good on Halstead for not panicking when Joppich pulled within two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dev View Post
    Was expecting shootout. Got knife fight instead. Oh well, that's Joppich for you. And the entire GBR foil team, for that matter (although Kruse seems to tape his knife to the end of a broomstick).

    Good on Halstead for not panicking when Joppich pulled within two.
    Knife fight?

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    Dev
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    Knife fight, meaning most touches seemed to be resolved via remise, counterattack, or riposte/counter-riposte after the distance collapsed. Not a small amount of jabbing.

    This seemed partly because Halstead's defensive footwork involved a wide stance and a lot of leaning, and Joppich's strategy for making up the six-touch differential appeared to consist of (figuratively) yelling "Raaaaaaaaah!" and running at him.

    The comment about Kruse was because he seems to leverage many of the same counterattack, remise, and riposte actions that Halstead did, but he does it from a much longer distance to make use of his 6'2" height/reach advantage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dev View Post
    Knife fight, meaning most touches seemed to be resolved via remise, counterattack, or riposte/counter-riposte after the distance collapsed. Not a small amount of jabbing.

    This seemed partly because Halstead's defensive footwork involved a wide stance and a lot of leaning, and Joppich's strategy for making up the six-touch differential appeared to consist of (figuratively) yelling "Raaaaaaaaah!" and running at him.

    The comment about Kruse was because he seems to leverage many of the same counterattack, remise, and riposte actions that Halstead did, but he does it from a much longer distance to make use of his 6'2" height/reach advantage.
    Oh I see what you mean. Impression I've got is that style of fencing seems to be more symptomatic of anyone who fences Joppich rather then an accurate showing of a fencer's real style.

    I find Halsted one of the smoothest fencers out there (watch his match against Khovansky from the Euros last year), but against Joppich no-one really has a choice but to get down and dirty with their fencing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foil.Leicester View Post
    but against Joppich no-one really has a choice but to get down and dirty with their fencing.
    What is it about his style that you think causes this?

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    Member CDRMark's Avatar
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    Great vid, thanks.
    Is it FIE rules that don't require opponents to arrange their target areas to the ref?
    Cheers
    Mark

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    eac
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    He gets in your face and remises all day long. When someone is in your face and remising and contorting all day long, it's hard not to start also contorting yourself so as to get good angles and so on. There are spectacular exceptions, of course, like Meinhardt v. Joppich from CIP this year, when people keep it somewhat cleaner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eac View Post
    He gets in your face and remises all day long. When someone is in your face and remising and contorting all day long, it's hard not to start also contorting yourself so as to get good angles and so on. There are spectacular exceptions, of course, like Meinhardt v. Joppich from CIP this year, when people keep it somewhat cleaner.
    That and he's got the hunched-over engarde which makes him harder to attack, so when you go on the offensive yourself you either have to go for the back, which he'll step into and twist, or get in closer and lower to get the angle for hitting the chest/shoulder

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    Dev
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    Meinhardt had a pretty good game plan against Joppich, though it was pretty dependent upon his 19-year-old legs and good physical conditioning. Joppich has a tendency to "camp" at the edge of distance, and rather than play along, Meinhardt pushed the tempo with constant movement in and out to the edge of attack distance. He attacked from long range almost exclusively and made use of second-intention remises and counter-ripostes. This seemed to be about a 50-50 shot against Joppich's riposte. If Joppich gave ground when pressed, coming out of his hunched guard, then Meinhardt would chase him down and hit him on first intention.

    Those sorts of tactics weren't an option for Halstead--not because he doesn't have the physical skills (I don't know if he does or not), but because Joppich pressed extremely hard from the first touch to try and make up the point differential.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dev View Post
    Those sorts of tactics weren't an option for Halstead--not because he doesn't have the physical skills (I don't know if he does or not)
    Halsted is a very fit fencer but you're right, his fitness is a different kind to that of Meinhardt's. The British Foilists train for endurance, they look to be able to work the piste up and down for 9 minutes and still be good to go for an overtime minute. Meinhardt is a beautifully explosive fencer who can push hard and fast suddenly and because of that can fence from the long-distance you mentioned

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    Senior Member dekko's Avatar
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    There was a similiar high octane bout, '99(?) WCs, men's foil, a cuban and a korean(i think), 15-14 with 1 second left in the first 3 minutes. Very nice bout, lots of action and fun to watch. It's how foilf should be, instead of what we have now. Oh well.
    YEAH I SADI IT!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDRMark View Post
    Great vid, thanks.
    Is it FIE rules that don't require opponents to arrange their target areas to the ref?
    Cheers
    Mark
    Yes. Nobody ever changes end in a team match.

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    @dekko

    Maybe that was Young-Ho Kim vs. Elvis Gregori?

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    NGV
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    Quote Originally Posted by dekko View Post
    It's how foilf should be, instead of what we have now. Oh well.
    I haven't watched that many of the Euro championship videos, but I found the Baldini-Aspromonte men's foil final pretty satisfying, with some great fencing (although arguments and appeals interfered with the rhythm of the bout at times).

    I like the Errol Flynn moment that happens at 8 - 5 (12:35 of the video):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrz3f99XPkM

  20. #20
    NGV
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    Another sequence from the men's foil final that I linked above that caught my attention - it was at 7-3, or at 10:57 of the video.

    As best I can describe it - the fencers come en garde at Aspromonte's end of the strip. Aspromonte launches a quick beat-attack a moment after "allez," and Baldini parries. Baldini replies with a riposte that is parried. Aspromonte's counter-riposte is parried, and as he recovers from the initial lunge, Baldini delivers his final riposte with a recovery forward into a lunge, forcing Aspromonte to continue backward with a huge double retreat that carries his back foot over well over the end line, while at the same time deflecting Baldini's point with an upward sweeping parry.

    There's a momentary break in the action. As Aspromonte advances, trying to retake the initiative, Baldini draws him in with a small retreat while making a circular blade movement. Then, as Aspromonte commits to a second advance, Baldini surprises him with an extremely quick attack into preparation. Aspromonte is caught too close, and his parry attempt comes hopelessly late.

    The whole thing takes roughly four seconds. It was fun to watch.
    Last edited by NGV; 07-27-2010 at 03:09 AM.

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