Another Dremel question

So, I'm getting ready to start using my new Dremel to strip some foils,
but the cut-off wheels that I have seem to be too wide for the foil
grooves. Can anyone tell me the part number of the wheels I need to work
on a foil?

Thanks!

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Hi Harold,

Use part number 409 wheels (15/16" diameter, .025" thick) and *always*
wear protective eyewear! They can and do jam and will fly apart at
unexpected times.

Best wishes,

Dieter


Harold Buck wrote:
> So, I'm getting ready to start using my new Dremel to strip some foils,
> but the cut-off wheels that I have seem to be too wide for the foil
> grooves. Can anyone tell me the part number of the wheels I need to work
> on a foil?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

The other day, I had a foil where even the 409 wheel had a hard time fitting
in a very narrow groove. That is very unusual though.

I am getting better at doing this, but does anyone have any methods for
minimizing wheel breakage. I have found that if I keep the Dremel still,
and slide the foil along under it, I keep it steadier, and less likely to
break. I tend to break them when I move the Dremel to get close to the end
of the groove, and presumable angle it a little, at which point the wheel
distintegrates.

"Dieter Schlaepfer" <schlae@sonic.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:3DA4FECB.2070207@sonic.nospam.net...
>
> Hi Harold,
>
> Use part number 409 wheels (15/16" diameter, .025" thick) and *always*
> wear protective eyewear! They can and do jam and will fly apart at
> unexpected times.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dieter
>
>
> Harold Buck wrote:
> > So, I'm getting ready to start using my new Dremel to strip some foils,
> > but the cut-off wheels that I have seem to be too wide for the foil
> > grooves. Can anyone tell me the part number of the wheels I need to work
> > on a foil?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > --Harold Buck
> >
> >
> > "I used to rock and roll all night,
> > and party every day.
> > Then it was every other day. . . ."
> > -Homer J. Simpson
>
>

In article <no_one_knows-D71710.18572409102002@netnews.attbi.com>, Harold Buck
<no_one_knows@attbi.com> writes:

>So, I'm getting ready to start using my new Dremel to strip some foils,
>but the cut-off wheels that I have seem to be too wide for the foil
>grooves. Can anyone tell me the part number of the wheels I need to work
>on a foil?
>
>Thanks!
>
>--Harold Buck

It may be the foils themselves. It turns out I was doing 15 foils today and,
although I am using the 0.025 inch discs, they were a little sticky on one or
two of the foils, don't remember which. Each batch of blades seems a little
different. Keep trying.

Bill Hall

There are various attachments for Dremel tools, for sure to make
one into a router or a drill press. I imagine there's a "bench
grinder" attachment that would "keep it still" while you move the
blade. (A hose clamp would do it too, for less money.) It
should be fairly easy to make a jig to hold the blade in the
proper position and let it slide, while not letting it fly away
when the Dremel binds and life gets interesting.

Note: "WHEN it binds". Not if. Either way, sooner or later you
WILL get pieces of cut-off wheel flying around at high velocity,
and probably hot to boot. Wear eye protection!

Personally, for glue and shipping grease removal I prefer the
acetone-in-a-tube method. With good ventilation. And no
smoking. :-)

Dieter Schlaepfer wrote:

>
> Peter,
>
> For safety reasons, I always keep the blade in a vice. I then work on a
> few inches at a time before readjusting the position of the blade in the
> vice. It takes some patience and practice to keep the wheel aligned with
> the groove. In the rare case where the groove is too narrow . . . well,
> it isn't too narrow after I'm done. Incidentally, I also use the dremel
> to grind off the slag from the "shoulders" of the tang--the part that
> will touch the bell guard--and to cut a larger slot, if necessary, at
> base of the blade for the spaghetti tubing.
>
> Dieter
>
>
> Peter Harrison wrote:
>
>> The other day, I had a foil where even the 409 wheel had a hard time
>> fitting
>> in a very narrow groove. That is very unusual though.
>>
>> I am getting better at doing this, but does anyone have any methods for
>> minimizing wheel breakage. I have found that if I keep the Dremel still,
>> and slide the foil along under it, I keep it steadier, and less likely to
>> break. I tend to break them when I move the Dremel to get close to
>> the end
>> of the groove, and presumable angle it a little, at which point the wheel
>> distintegrates.
>>
>

Peter,

For safety reasons, I always keep the blade in a vice. I then work on a
few inches at a time before readjusting the position of the blade in the
vice. It takes some patience and practice to keep the wheel aligned with
the groove. In the rare case where the groove is too narrow . . . well,
it isn't too narrow after I'm done. Incidentally, I also use the dremel
to grind off the slag from the "shoulders" of the tang--the part that
will touch the bell guard--and to cut a larger slot, if necessary, at
base of the blade for the spaghetti tubing.

Dieter


Peter Harrison wrote:
> The other day, I had a foil where even the 409 wheel had a hard time fitting
> in a very narrow groove. That is very unusual though.
>
> I am getting better at doing this, but does anyone have any methods for
> minimizing wheel breakage. I have found that if I keep the Dremel still,
> and slide the foil along under it, I keep it steadier, and less likely to
> break. I tend to break them when I move the Dremel to get close to the end
> of the groove, and presumable angle it a little, at which point the wheel
> distintegrates.
>

Phil Fites wrote:
> Note: "WHEN it binds". Not if. Either way, sooner or later you
> WILL get pieces of cut-off wheel flying around at high velocity,
> and probably hot to boot. Wear eye protection!

Why does a dremel sound like a really good tool - then this is
mentioned..

The Dremel rotary grinders and similar things from other
manufacturers ARE really good tools. Like all tools, they must
be used carefully and with appropriate protection.

The cutoff wheels are some brittle abrasive material spinning at
something like 20,000-30,000 rpm and are quite fragile to
twisting stresses. If you get one even slightly out of line with
the cut you're making (or the groove you're following in the case
of foil blades) the wheel will crack and come apart, with bits
flying off at a tangent to their previous 20K-30K rotation
vector. If you're cutting metal, the wheel gets hot (lots of
pretty sparks from the metal you're cutting); hence hot flying
bits. Broken bits of cutoff wheel aren't very heavy and have a
terrible ballistic coefficient so they slow down rapidly, and
they don't stay hot for long--but getting one in an eye could be
a Very Bad Thing.

I have used Dremel tools for years, with cutoff wheels and other
bits, and continue to do so. For the appropriate jobs and with
appropriate protective gear.

It's my personal choice to use acetone to dissolve stuff because
I think it's overall a safer way to remove gunk from grooves in
blades. It also takes a lot fewer minutes of my time to drop a
blade (or several blades) into a pipe, let the chemical do its
thing, pull the blade(s) out the next day and run a pipe cleaner
down the groove to clean out any lingering gunk or chemical. But
you need to ensure ventilation and protect against ignition
sources (and dissolving things you want intact) with the chemical.

As someone mentioned earlier, the Dremel can be used to widen a
too-tight groove. Acetone won't do this, of course.

Amy & Joseph Kormann wrote:

> Phil Fites wrote:
>
>>Note: "WHEN it binds". Not if. Either way, sooner or later you
>>WILL get pieces of cut-off wheel flying around at high velocity,
>>and probably hot to boot. Wear eye protection!
>>
>
> Why does a dremel sound like a really good tool - then this is
> mentioned..
>

In article <3DA6CC21.6090105@rogers.com>, Phil Fites <fites@rogers.com>
wrote:

> The cutoff wheels are some brittle abrasive material spinning at
> something like 20,000-30,000 rpm and are quite fragile to
> twisting stresses. If you get one even slightly out of line with


When you use a Dremel to clean out glue, what RPM setting do you
normally use?

Oh, and I've taken everyone's advice to heart and purchased a full
faceshield to wear when I start using it.

BTW, Home Depot doesn't seem to carry the 409 cutoff wheels. I may need
to order directly from Dremel.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

I don't use a Dremel to clean out glue, so I can't advise you
there. (My Dremel has a variable speed control and can go 5,000
to 25,000 rpm; others vary.)

You should be able to find cutoff wheels at a hobby store, or a
woodworking specialty store. I got mine as part of a kit sold by
Lee Valley several years ago, and haven't needed to buy more yet.
(Lee Valley is a store that carries high quality woodworking
tools and parts; you might find them under "Veritas" in your
area.) Or try a search on "Dremel cutoff wheels" and you might
find a local seller.

Goggles should be plenty, or even the glasses with "corners".
though a full shield has other uses too.

Harold Buck wrote:

> In article <3DA6CC21.6090105@rogers.com>, Phil Fites <fites@rogers.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>The cutoff wheels are some brittle abrasive material spinning at
>>something like 20,000-30,000 rpm and are quite fragile to
>>twisting stresses. If you get one even slightly out of line with
>>
>
>
> When you use a Dremel to clean out glue, what RPM setting do you
> normally use?
>
> Oh, and I've taken everyone's advice to heart and purchased a full
> faceshield to wear when I start using it.
>
> BTW, Home Depot doesn't seem to carry the 409 cutoff wheels. I may need
> to order directly from Dremel.
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson
>

Try www.mcmaster.com,
they have <everything> imaginable.
Taps, dies, glue, screws, bolts, metric, standard. All things hardware and
industrial. The paper catalog is 3500 pages, but is online in its entirety
and easily searchable. Regular shipments usually arrive 2nd day.

TS



"Phil Fites" <fites@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:3DA71E43.90608@rogers.com...
> I don't use a Dremel to clean out glue, so I can't advise you
> there. (My Dremel has a variable speed control and can go 5,000
> to 25,000 rpm; others vary.)
>
> You should be able to find cutoff wheels at a hobby store, or a
> woodworking specialty store. I got mine as part of a kit sold by
> Lee Valley several years ago, and haven't needed to buy more yet.
> (Lee Valley is a store that carries high quality woodworking
> tools and parts; you might find them under "Veritas" in your
> area.) Or try a search on "Dremel cutoff wheels" and you might
> find a local seller.
>
> Goggles should be plenty, or even the glasses with "corners".
> though a full shield has other uses too.
>
> Harold Buck wrote:
>
> > In article <3DA6CC21.6090105@rogers.com>, Phil Fites <fites@rogers.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>The cutoff wheels are some brittle abrasive material spinning at
> >>something like 20,000-30,000 rpm and are quite fragile to
> >>twisting stresses. If you get one even slightly out of line with
> >>
> >
> >
> > When you use a Dremel to clean out glue, what RPM setting do you
> > normally use?
> >
> > Oh, and I've taken everyone's advice to heart and purchased a full
> > faceshield to wear when I start using it.
> >
> > BTW, Home Depot doesn't seem to carry the 409 cutoff wheels. I may need
> > to order directly from Dremel.
> >
> > --Harold Buck
> >
> >
> > "I used to rock and roll all night,
> > and party every day.
> > Then it was every other day. . . ."
> > -Homer J. Simpson
> >
>

Our local Ace Hardware has the wheels. CostCo has a kit with lots of
attachments for $20. I used the diamond encrusted bit to trim some glass
for a leaded glass window, and one of the grinders to smooth of some of
rectangular corners on the base of a tang for a French grip.

I have seen bulk cutting wheels on eBay too.

I have had multiple wheels fly apart on me, and while I agree that eye
protection is essential, the pieces are so light that you can barely feel
them when they hit your hand (slight exaggeration, but they do not hurt at
all). Of course, if you are using a grinding wheel, that might result in
larger chunks.

I have used the Dremel to get the glue out a couple of times, and especially
when, even after an acetone soak, there is still some black crud in the base
of the groove that I could not completely remove with cloth.

My Dremel only goes at 15k and 30k, and I usually use 15k.

BTW, since I do blade repair for the kids at the club, I bought an engraving
bit for the Dremel, and number the blades as I go. I am trying to keep
track of what tips have what sort of problems how often. I know this is
somewhat heretical in this group (and a bit off topic), but I am seeing more
problems with German tips than French (way more barrels get dented).
Admittedly, we currently have more German tip users than French, but I do
not think the imbalance can be accounted for solely by that.

"Phil Fites" <fites@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:3DA71E43.90608@rogers.com...
> I don't use a Dremel to clean out glue, so I can't advise you
> there. (My Dremel has a variable speed control and can go 5,000
> to 25,000 rpm; others vary.)
>
> You should be able to find cutoff wheels at a hobby store, or a
> woodworking specialty store. I got mine as part of a kit sold by
> Lee Valley several years ago, and haven't needed to buy more yet.
> (Lee Valley is a store that carries high quality woodworking
> tools and parts; you might find them under "Veritas" in your
> area.) Or try a search on "Dremel cutoff wheels" and you might
> find a local seller.
>
> Goggles should be plenty, or even the glasses with "corners".
> though a full shield has other uses too.
>
> Harold Buck wrote:
>
> > In article <3DA6CC21.6090105@rogers.com>, Phil Fites <fites@rogers.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>The cutoff wheels are some brittle abrasive material spinning at
> >>something like 20,000-30,000 rpm and are quite fragile to
> >>twisting stresses. If you get one even slightly out of line with
> >>
> >
> >
> > When you use a Dremel to clean out glue, what RPM setting do you
> > normally use?
> >
> > Oh, and I've taken everyone's advice to heart and purchased a full
> > faceshield to wear when I start using it.
> >
> > BTW, Home Depot doesn't seem to carry the 409 cutoff wheels. I may need
> > to order directly from Dremel.
> >
> > --Harold Buck
> >
> >
> > "I used to rock and roll all night,
> > and party every day.
> > Then it was every other day. . . ."
> > -Homer J. Simpson
> >
>

Harold Buck wrote:

>
> BTW, Home Depot doesn't seem to carry the 409 cutoff wheels. I may need
> to order directly from Dremel.
>

The Sears Craftsman is virtually identical to the Dremel, and the cut off
wheels are identical, so you can always get replacement parts there. You
may also want to get a spare cut off wheel axle (?), i.e., the rod that
hold the cut off disk. It holds the disk on with a little bitty screw.
I'm usually smart enough to work on points with a towel underneath to catch
the screws, but you can easily forget about that during a night of blade
grinding, and you can go through a lot of cut off disks, so that little
screw is being taken out and replaced a lot, making it subject to being
dropped.

Not like that has ever happened to me.

In article <3DAAE85B.D271C7AF@pyramid.net>,
John Springgate <jps@pyramid.net> wrote:

>
> Harold Buck wrote:
>
> >
> > BTW, Home Depot doesn't seem to carry the 409 cutoff wheels. I may need
> > to order directly from Dremel.
> >
>
> The Sears Craftsman is virtually identical to the Dremel, and the cut off
> wheels are identical, so you can always get replacement parts there. You
> may also want to get a spare cut off wheel axle (?), i.e., the rod that
> hold the cut off disk. It holds the disk on with a little bitty screw.
> I'm usually smart enough to work on points with a towel underneath to catch
> the screws, but you can easily forget about that during a night of blade
> grinding, and you can go through a lot of cut off disks, so that little
> screw is being taken out and replaced a lot, making it subject to being
> dropped.
>
> Not like that has ever happened to me.


Yeah, I finally got around to using it for the first time last night,
and I just kept telling myself: "Don't drop the screw, don't drop the
screw. . . ."

I'm also *mighty* happy I bought the ful face shield; those wheels do
break and fly all over, don't they?

Is it just me, or is the hole in the cutoff wheels too small for the
screw? I had to widen the hole every time, and broke at least one wheel
while doing it.

Are there other attachments that are better suited to cleaning epee
blades? The cutoff wheel seemed like it was a little small for the
groove (even the #420 wheel).

Overall, things went really well, thanks to the great advice I've been
getting here. (BTW, I agree that an acetone pipe might be less
labor-intensive, but I realy don't want one off those sitting around my
house all year when I only have to wire blades abotu twice a year for
the team I coach.)

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

In article <no_one_knows-DADF15.13550414102002@netnews.attbi.com>, Harold Buck
<no_one_knows@attbi.com> writes:

>Are there other attachments that are better suited to cleaning epee
>blades? The cutoff wheel seemed like it was a little small for the
>groove (even the #420 wheel).
>

I don't lose too many wheels doing epees. but you still need the 409 to clean
out in the area of the threads. Otherwise you can use the fibreglass cut off
wheels for the rest of the epee. They last a lot longer.

I just hold the Dremel slightly off perpendicular to the blade, which scrubs a
slightly wider path. Remember you are just trying to get a trace of new metal
so that the glue will stick.

About the size of the hole in the 409 wheel. Just screw the screw through the
hole about halfway before you start the screw into the mandrel. You will be
able to tighten the screw all the way. In other words, use the little screw to
make the hole larger. You don't want the disk to be sloppy on the screw, it
will make the edge wobble.

Bill Hall

>(BTW, I agree that an acetone pipe might be less
>labor-intensive, but I realy don't want one off those sitting around my
>house all year when I only have to wire blades abotu twice a year for
>the team I coach.)
>
>--Harold Buck

Twice a year? Lucky you! I have to help do that more than twice in a school
season! (then again my team is very very hard on blades)
While I use the acetone pipe when I re-wire blades for friends and fellow
fencers (and see it as really the only way to clean a blade sanely) I can see
how you might not want the pipe in your house. (I use the pipe at my club)

In article <20021015160731.17044.00002459@mb-mu.aol.com>,
alison1daland@aol.com (Alison1daland) wrote:

> >(BTW, I agree that an acetone pipe might be less
> >labor-intensive, but I realy don't want one off those sitting around my
> >house all year when I only have to wire blades abotu twice a year for
> >the team I coach.)
> >
> >--Harold Buck
>
> Twice a year? Lucky you! I have to help do that more than twice in a school
> season! (then again my team is very very hard on blades)
> While I use the acetone pipe when I re-wire blades for friends and fellow
> fencers (and see it as really the only way to clean a blade sanely) I can see
> how you might not want the pipe in your house. (I use the pipe at my club)


Well, I'm only re-wiring stuff during the season, and I've used some of
my budget to buy spare blades, so I can wire a bunch at once and then
have some spares. When all of the spares go and we get some weapons
going down, then I do a big batch.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson