The Orthopedic Balance Weight from TungstenFencing.com - Installation
The first Orthopedic Balance Weight, the OBW-165 is now available for foil and épée from TungstenFencing.com
Installation
Parts included:
The OBW-165 weight,
two sets of screws- two each of M3 x 8mm and M3 x 16mm,
a small piece of blue-tack temporary adhesive.
Tools and materials required for mounting:
Coarse wood-rasp,
2mm Allen-wrench (Allan-key in the UK),
Epoxy - I recommend Devcon Flo-Mix.
Installation basically requires:
Determine the desired placement of the weight,
remove excess material from the tail of the grip to fit the pocket,
fasten the extension to the grip with epoxy.
Total time is estimated at a half-hour or so.
To experiment with placement, the longer two screws and the Blu-tack adhesive are provided. Wrap the adhesive around the tail-extension of the grip, and use the longer screws to hold the leaves of the OBW on either side of the tail piece.
The Orthopedic Balance Weight installed on an Uhlmann épée
A couple of shots of the OBW-165 installed on an Uhlmann épée. The original balance point was at the white mark. The OBW moved the balance point, where it is shown supported, 3" toward the hand.
Make your pistol-grip a real Orthopedic grip, with a balancing weight from TungstenFencing.com
More images. This one is mounted on a foil. It moved the balance point from the white mark toward the hand by 3-1/2". Note that the OBW does not interfere with the wrist for infighting, and, in fact, makes comfortable contact, rather than stabbing you like the original tail-piece.
Last edited by EldRick; 05-09-2010 at 03:05 PM.
Make your pistol-grip a real Orthopedic grip, with a balancing weight from TungstenFencing.com
I've been asked whether the OB-165 is legal for competition, and while I personally think it is within the rules, that won't cut much ice at a tournament, so I asked Dan DeChaine, International Master Armourer and member of the FIE SEMI Commitee, for his opinion. Here is his reply, quoted with his permission:
Looking at this device for the orthopaedic grip, I see nothing that is in violation of the rules, as long as it is not mounted in a way that would violate the rule concerning the overall length of the grip. As far as I can see, it conforms to the rule requiring that the grip be designed in such a way that it can be held in only one position. This seems to conform.
So if that concern has been holding anyone back from trying it out, it's not an issue. And I am still offering a mounting service for those who don't wish to do the installation themselves.
Last edited by EldRick; 07-23-2010 at 12:47 AM.
Make your pistol-grip a real Orthopedic grip, with a balancing weight from TungstenFencing.com
I wonder how this feels with foils that have extreme down and inward cants. If you see Cedric Anen's foils his hand is SO contorted to make that work. Some people really like that. I have an extreme downward cant with only a slight inward one. This is something I wish I could try b4 I buy. Maybe I will see you at Nats or something.
I've been asked whether the OB-165 is legal for competition, and while I personally think it is within the rules, that won't cut much ice at a tournament, so I asked Dan DeChaine for his opinion. Here is his reply, quoted with his permission:
So if that concern has been holding anyone back from trying it out, it's not an issue. And I am still offering a mounting service for those who don't wish to do the installation themselves.
Very interesting. What about the implications of a rather large, flat (and presumably grounded) disk covering part of the wrist in epee?
Well, it doesn't cover any more area than the flat wide beavertail of a Russian grip. And, of course, if you think it's an issue, insulating it with a quick coat of spray-paint is always an option.
But to quote Dan, who, I'm pretty sure would have thought of that,
Looking at this device for the orthopaedic grip, I see nothing that is in violation of the rules...
Last edited by EldRick; 06-07-2010 at 12:33 PM.
Make your pistol-grip a real Orthopedic grip, with a balancing weight from TungstenFencing.com
The new balance point definitely lessens the load on my index finger. It's easier to control my point just using pressure from the bottom three fingers. At first, it took some adjustment, because the normal amount of finger pressure needed to disengage or coupe would cause me to overshoot my target. That's not a bad thing at all, but one wouldn't want to put this on right before a big tournament.
As a rehabilitation tool, this is a godsend. I have a nagging joint injury on my index finger which gets resprained during strong blade actions. The previous solution was to give lessons using a larger Visconti, and basically do movements from the wrist/elbow, instead of fingers. With the OBW on, I can continue to use my preferred grip, but it keeps the pressure off my index finger.
Now, the bad: particularly on actions where the wrist is flexed to the inside, the OBW gets in the way. Currently, a sweeping parry-7 is quite uncomfortable to execute with the OBW, and there doesn't seem to be a good solution, other than "Don't parry 7." The prime position is OK, because the combination of wrist and elbow flexion causes the OBW to slip harmlessly past the wrist. (Note: I have the same problem with any other "long-tailed" grip, such as the German Visconti or Russian.)
Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to truly fence 100% with it, because of my injury. In pure competition mode, some more benefits or problems may come to light. Hopefully I'll be able to be aggressive about rehab in July, and give it a good workout at the Elite Camp in August.
The new balance point definitely lessens the load on my index finger. It's easier to control my point just using pressure from the bottom three fingers. At first, it took some adjustment, because the normal amount of finger pressure needed to disengage or coupe would cause me to overshoot my target. That's not a bad thing at all, but one wouldn't want to put this on right before a big tournament.
As a rehabilitation tool, this is a godsend. I have a nagging joint injury on my index finger which gets resprained during strong blade actions. The previous solution was to give lessons using a larger Visconti, and basically do movements from the wrist/elbow, instead of fingers. With the OBW on, I can continue to use my preferred grip, but it keeps the pressure off my index finger.
Now, the bad: particularly on actions where the wrist is flexed to the inside, the OBW gets in the way. Currently, a sweeping parry-7 is quite uncomfortable to execute with the OBW, and there doesn't seem to be a good solution, other than "Don't parry 7." [/B]The prime position is OK, because the combination of wrist and elbow flexion causes the OBW to slip harmlessly past the wrist. (Note: I have the same problem with any other "long-tailed" grip, such as the German Visconti or Russian.
Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to truly fence 100% with it, because of my injury. In pure competition mode, some more benefits or problems may come to light. Hopefully I'll be able to be aggressive about rehab in July, and give it a good workout at the Elite Camp in August.
Just trying to figure out how a 7 parry is a ffected at all.
A 7 parry is performed with the point below and to the inside of the guard. To accomplish that, you need wrist flexion (to move the point to the inside) and ulnar deviation (to move the point down). With most pistol grips, the "tail" is short and narrow, and doesn't touch the inside of your wrist. However, add a device with the profile of the OBW to the end of your grip, and there's more that can get in the way.
I understand how to execute a Parry 7 (use it quite frequently, as a matter of fact). Not sure what position you are discussing initiating the parry from, but from my experience, which of course may be considered very limited by some, is when using a french grip, the grip and pommel are above the arm and therefore when dropping the tip and moving the hand laterally (at the same time, thus creating a semi-circular motion) the pommel rises above the arm, and, as I said, in my limited experience, doesn't interfere with the motion of the parry. Again, when holding the pistol grip, the orientation of the grip is normal to the floor (perpendicular), thus when dropping the tip and moving the arm laterally, the tang motion is away from the wrist/arm. Now if I'm not describing Parry 7, someone PLEASE correct me. I must caveat this with the assumption that I am starting from Parry 6 position.
So, again, I'm still scratching my head over how this, or any other pommel/tang, can interfere with the parry.
Remember those who put their lives in danger for your sake.
I've let this go on long enough. Why don't you just tape a bar of tungsten or whatever kind of dense metal to the outside of your wrist bar (side that doesn't come into contact with your palm or wrist)? It would be NOT HOLLOW and therefore smaller in size while offering the same weight, it be less likely to interfere with any blade actions, it would be easier to attach (even if you epoxied it on) and it would be easier to manufacture/cheaper/more accessible.
Last edited by Superscribe; 06-30-2010 at 02:00 PM.
Gee, Ss, thank you for your forbearance in letting the discussion go on for so long - you've really been generous with us, and we all really appreciate that...
The Ortho Balance Weight is not "hollow"; the pocket is necessary to ensure that it stays attached under the stresses of fencing. It can be installed so it is flush with the wrist extension. It is tungsten because there are no other comparably dense metals that are affordable, and the density makes it as small as practicable for the weight. It is designed to put the weight farther out from the blade than the tail extension because that's how counterbalancing works.
If you think that you can produce a useful design at lower cost, feel free.
Last edited by EldRick; 06-30-2010 at 03:28 PM.
Make your pistol-grip a real Orthopedic grip, with a balancing weight from TungstenFencing.com
Your mileage may vary based on forearm biomechanics, grip geometry, and how much you move your arm in the process.
These are merely my experiences with a unique product. At the end of the day, I'm not sure that balance-point-at-the-guard ideal really has enough effect on the modern foil game to really worry too much about it, but I'm willing to experiment with any product which seems interesting. If the OBW seems interesting to you, feel free to talk to Rick .
Gee, Ss, thank you for your forbearance in letting the discussion go on for so long - you've really been generous with us, and we all really appreciate that...
The Ortho Balance Weight is not "hollow"; the pocket is necessary to ensure that it stays attached under the stresses of fencing. It can be installed so it is flush with the wrist extension. It is tungsten because there are no other comparably dense metals that are affordable, and the density makes it as small as practicable for the weight. It is designed to put the weight farther out from the blade than the tail extension because that's how counterbalancing works.
If you think that you can produce a useful design at lower cost, feel free.
Judging by your language, I think maybe you feel my original text was designed solely to offend and undermine you. That's not the case. I appreciate the work hours you've put into your creation. You've had an idea and acted upon it. That's more than a lot of people care to do.
I'm taking the time to apologize because i don't want to belittle you for no reason, even over the internet. What i'm going to do it demonstrate my original arguement through the implementation of what I'm suggesting.
Excellent! Thanks for your (not needed, but appreciated) apology (I was being pretty snide), and I'll be glad to see some competition on this - it will legitimize both of our offerings and help introduce the notion of a balanced pistol grip to even more fencers. I'll look forward to seeing your design.
One source of small tungsten parts and powder in small quantities can be found by searching for "tungsten weight pinebox" - they use them for weighting pinebox derby model cars. That's how I first found the weights that I experimented with.
Make your pistol-grip a real Orthopedic grip, with a balancing weight from TungstenFencing.com
Originally Posted by EldRick 
