Fencing Etiquette Rules

>While on the topic of rules, how about "sabre fencers shall not scream like
>injured babboons"?

I have known a large number of fencers of all three weapons, who scream just as
loudly if not louder than I do when I fence sabre. The screams are only ever
heard by myself and those I know when scoring an extremely difficult touch,
incurring alot of pain, or at the breaking point of frusteration (ie- someone
just did the same move on you for the 10th time in a row and you still cant
pick up on what they are doing). I've also noticed that many sabre fencers use
the scream to help let out tension and such, so that they don't inadvertently
take it out on their opponent in the form of a brutal hit.
~alison

>I tend to stop and correct fencers who are hitting too hard.

i do also. I usually wait several touches to see if that one hard hit was a
fluke, or if they just generally hit hard. If they are hurting me, I'm not
enjoying it. I see no point to fencing if you don't find it fun. Those who hit
ver hard for no reason, simply ruin the fun of it. An unenjoyable sport is a
useless sport. (I must also say that my pain tolerance is fairly high, so if
you are hurting me, you definitely are bruising or welting me, not just making
me uncomfortable.)

"Wolf" <wrbusson@mtu.edu> wrote in message news:<uot0mhig54pl0e@corp.supernews.com>...
>>
> While on the topic of rules, how about "sabre fencers shall not scream like
> injured babboons"?
>
> It's especially annoying when they move to epee, and yell during a lunge.
> It's even more annoying when they yell whilst slashing with an epee.
>
> -Bill (who feels that yelling on the strip without sustaining a grievous
> injury should be considered feigning an injury and carded as such.)

I always thought the epeeists who go "Op-ey-la-la-la" are the
funniest. The fencers who annoy me are the female foilists who shriek
like lovelorn peacocks. In sabre, we also get girls who started in
foil and held on to the foil screech--which is released into your face
with distended neck and bared fangs and is really kind of weird in the
"girly" kind of girl who does it. I always liked Kelly William's deep
"Hoo," though.

I don't particularly like the sabre yell which is accompanied by a
pumped fist and a pleading look at the referee. Especially when they
both do it. Especially when I'm the referee. It makes me go all dry
and unimpressed and makes my mouth look sour.

--Delia

Kevin Phillips wrote:
> Each point I scored is cherished and I have found the truly superior fencer
> can learn something from most matches - even if they are only criticising their
> own style.

This has been my experience also. I'm sorta in the middle of the pool
where I fence and I rarely say no to anyone. I've gotten some really
great matches out of really poor fencers and some very poor matches out
of great fencers. My thoughts are that the poor fencers are *really*
trying while the great fencers are just biding time or staying warm
until someone "in their own league" comes available. Either way, I'm
fencing.

The only times that I'll actively decline a bout is if I'm tired and
need a rest; not in the mood to be hit with a rebar; watching some
really good fencing.

-Joseph
--
Amy and Joseph Kormann

Sorry if this is a duplicate post. But I was continuing
the dialog with Achilleus and my server barfed up a message
about authentication error. Whateverthat is

Achilleus wrote:

>>Because, in fencing you are expected to face them in the tournaments?

>div 1 NAC's you don't face them. World cups you don't face them.

There are how many div 1 NAC's? How many World Cups do you do a year?
Just an opinion but most fencers work their way up, and fencing sharp
bouts in the local division or section is where they get competitive
training. And generally speaking, those are open to all comers.

:

>>Or more importantly because you owe it to the game and to all the
>>better fencers who indulged you when you were starting?


>They didn't indulge me. I started at a club where they made it clear
>that it was a chore to fence with me, until I got better.

Sorry to hear that. Don't think that general attitude
would be permitted at any of the three or four clubs
that I regularly fence at. Though as I indicated in a previous
post I have run into individuals, almost always juniors, who
had that attitude.

J.

> div 1 NAC's you don't face them. World cups you don't face them.
>

Really? You never come across a complete rabbit at a World Cup (you
cannot be American then since, for some unknown reason, they have no
entry requirements for "home" World Cups)?

Last year I watched a very bemused/stunned Katalin Varga drop 3 hits
to a complete rabbit in a World Cup. This rabbit wasn't really doing
anything except for standing there with a line (if anybody beat the
line, she did not attempt a derobement or parry or break distance or
anything - she just held her line out) - Varga just ran onto her point
3 times. Okay she won eventually (although her friends had a good
laugh...), but she shouldn't have dropped 3 hits (may have affected
her seeding). I believe that the reason she dropped those hits was
beacuse she wasn't used to fencing someone of that standard (she only
trains against very good/promising people back in Hungary).

Training against people of every standard (in particular those who are
not a good as you and don't do what you expect) can be an advantage
sometimes.

When my coach used to fence competitively, he used to not be happy
unless he fenced all the other 12/15 foilists in the club each
session. Okay he got a good workout, but not all of the foilists at
his club were good: he got to try a large variety of moves against a
large variety of styles.

You are completely right, nobody can tell you who to fence: that is
perfectly up to you.

Honey

>
>People improve by fencing an opponent of equal or (preferably) higher
>skill. So if that novice in the corner fences you (experienced fencer),
>you don't get a whole lot out of it, but it's very good for the novice.
>Same thing goes if you want to fence the visiting Olympic-level fencer.
>So how to deal with the skill differential? From the point of view of the
>more experienced fencer, I use fencing with novices to practice and
>polish basic moves. From the point of view of the lower-level fencer
>asking the more skilled fencer to fence, I try not to take up too much of
>their time.
>

Don't forget that good fencers often have trouble with beginners because they
don't react the way they are "supposed to." Thus, practice bouts with beginners
can be useful exercises.

-Harold

>
>People improve by fencing an opponent of equal or (preferably) higher
>skill. So if that novice in the corner fences you (experienced fencer),
>you don't get a whole lot out of it, but it's very good for the novice.
>Same thing goes if you want to fence the visiting Olympic-level fencer.
>So how to deal with the skill differential? From the point of view of the
>more experienced fencer, I use fencing with novices to practice and
>polish basic moves. From the point of view of the lower-level fencer
>asking the more skilled fencer to fence, I try not to take up too much of
>their time.
>

Don't forget that good fencers often have trouble with beginners because they
don't react the way they are "supposed to." Thus, practice bouts with beginners
can be useful exercises.

-Harold

On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 02:19:19 GMT, "Andrew John" <aj@mistrose.com>
wrote:

>1) That beginner in the corner, who you have carefully been avoiding making eye contact with all evening,
> would probably like to fence. But if your majesty does not belive that they will fence to your exalted level,
> then by all means continue to snub them. YOUR membership fees will go up next year when they don't come back.

There's a nice corrollary to this;
1a) That bunch of beginner kids over there, that are all clinging
together for safety on one strip. Break out, spread yourself around.
You'll likely lose more, but you'll learn more too.

We get quite a number of kids that do this, mostly in the 13 - 15
range, and it's close to impossible to pry them apart. Worst of all,
not ONE of them is interested in conductive thread. Speaking of
which...

Robert Smith
ubik@shaw.ca

Spiggy,

Thank you, I'll add that one.

Regards
AJ

"Spiggy Topes" <ubik@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:b1j2pu0g72jcm4iem6ob7e3sd3o09ul7tc@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 02:19:19 GMT, "Andrew John" <aj@mistrose.com>
> wrote:
>
> >1) That beginner in the corner, who you have carefully been avoiding making eye contact with all evening,
> > would probably like to fence. But if your majesty does not belive that they will fence to your exalted level,
> > then by all means continue to snub them. YOUR membership fees will go up next year when they don't come back.
>
> There's a nice corrollary to this;
> 1a) That bunch of beginner kids over there, that are all clinging
> together for safety on one strip. Break out, spread yourself around.
> You'll likely lose more, but you'll learn more too.
>
> We get quite a number of kids that do this, mostly in the 13 - 15
> range, and it's close to impossible to pry them apart. Worst of all,
> not ONE of them is interested in conductive thread. Speaking of
> which...
>
> Robert Smith
> ubik@shaw.ca
>
>

Achilleus,

The pain inflicted by beginners is universal. - the counter attacks, the heavy arms.
Seems obvious that if beginners inflict pain on us, who know distance and paries, that they
are also doing it to themselves. Perhaps that is why the attrition rate is high, if they don't realise
that real fencers don't hit that hard. They are certainly not going to realise this,
if they never get to fence anyone above their level. Think way back - do you remember
a lot worse bruises than you ever get now ?

I can only speak for myself of course, but I find beginners are great to practise on
- distance especially ( 'cause they don't even know what they will do next ),
and simple attacks and ripostes. A bout or 2 a night never killed anyone.

Happy Fencing
AJ


"Achilleus" <achilles2k@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ef594c61.0209221835.759acbb6@posting.google.c om...
> honey_bunny_too@hotmail.com (Honey Bunny) wrote in message news:<3c53d06e.0209220920.43adc315@posting.google. com>...
> > Well I sure hope that people treated you with the same respect and
> > understanding when you were learning....
>
> Growing up I played a lot of basketball. I learned very quickly which
> courts to go to play. It was obvious that on some courts I could do
> well, and others I would just get in the way, or be hurt. When I
> started fencing, it was the same way. I just worked hard and got to a
> point where the people around me would want to fence me, instead of
> the reverse.
>
> >
> > I don't refuse to fence anyone (the only people I try to avoid is if
> > they have physically "beaten me up" before - I don't mean an isolated
> > hard hit, I mean a large amount of pain with every hit they have
> > attempted...).
> >
> > Yes, in general, fencing the best people does me the greatest good for
> > my fencing, but I can still learn things by practicing things on any
> > beginner or novice.
>
> While you can practice stuff on beginners, you can also practice stuff
> on people your level, and then you learn even faster. And using a
> beginner as a pincushion doesn't help the novice all that much.
>
> > Sorry, but some people's attitudes can be so snobbish and infuriating.
> >
>
>
> In a perfect world, with all the time to fence, I would love to fence
> everybody willing. Unfortunately, time is limited, strips are
> limited, and I need to improve. It has nothing to do with being a
> snob, but being practical. A novice an work hard and improve and then
> be at a stage where fencing a much stronger fencer would be
> beneficial.
>
> Achilleus

"Andrew John" <aj@NOSPAMmistrose.com> wrote in message news:<jnDk9.23405$6g7.73526@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> Achilleus,
>
> The pain inflicted by beginners is universal. - the counter attacks, the heavy arms.
> Seems obvious that if beginners inflict pain on us, who know distance and paries, that they
> are also doing it to themselves. Perhaps that is why the attrition rate is high, if they don't realise
> that real fencers don't hit that hard. They are certainly not going to realise this,
> if they never get to fence anyone above their level. Think way back - do you remember
> a lot worse bruises than you ever get now ?
>
> I can only speak for myself of course, but I find beginners are great to practise on
> - distance especially ( 'cause they don't even know what they will do next ),
> and simple attacks and ripostes. A bout or 2 a night never killed anyone.
>
> Happy Fencing
> AJ

Actually, Most of you are missing my point, or perhaps I didn't state
it well...
In a room of 12-15 fencers, with plenty of time, it's great to fence
everyone. I am not in that situtuation. I have about 30 fencers, 6-8
strips, and only 1.5-2 hours to fence. Now factor in time waiting to
get on strips, and it becomes clear that I am not going to get to
fence everybody in a night. So, I pick and choose my bouts, to people
that help me and people that are at a level that I can help them, ie,
not a complete beginner.

It's not ego, but a reality for me. My time is limited, I need to
improve, and yes others need to fence me to improve, but with limited
time, I need to be selective. In other settings, I'll fence everybody
and anybody, bruises notwithstanding.

I just get frustrated with people that try to tell me how to train.
It's my fencing, my time.

"HaroldBuck" <haroldbuck@aol.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
20020925001147.10739.00009262@mb-cu.aol.com...
>
>
> >
> >People improve by fencing an opponent of equal or (preferably) higher
> >skill. So if that novice in the corner fences you (experienced fencer),
> >you don't get a whole lot out of it, but it's very good for the novice.
> >Same thing goes if you want to fence the visiting Olympic-level fencer.
> >So how to deal with the skill differential? From the point of view of the
> >more experienced fencer, I use fencing with novices to practice and
> >polish basic moves. From the point of view of the lower-level fencer
> >asking the more skilled fencer to fence, I try not to take up too much of
> >their time.
> >
>
> Don't forget that good fencers often have trouble with beginners because
they
> don't react the way they are "supposed to." Thus, practice bouts with
beginners
> can be useful exercises.
>
> -Harold
>
It is indeed a good exercise to repeat basic moves and play with legs. I
guess 20 % of the training time should be with begginers...
Cheers
Renaud