The TungstenFencing STP Installation and Armory Thread
The first TungstenFencing.com product is now available: the Sintered Tungsten Pommel, at TungstenFencing.com
This first product is a 200-gram aft-weighted French-grip pommel, primarily intended for épeéists, or foilists who prefer a heavy blade. It is, IMHO, a big improvement over the Schermasport tungsten pommel, and allows you to back off a couple of inches on the grip while retaining good point control.
This thread is intended to support installation and armorers using the TungstenFencing Sintered Tungsten Pommel (which will not make your motor run better).
Note that it does not have a through-hole for tightening the pommel with a screwdriver and wrench. There are three reasons for this:
- Not having a screwdriver hole makes it more difficult to overtighten it. I'm not interested in whining from those who would strip the threads in the aluminum cone by cranking it down as if torque specs mean nothing. Think of this as a cylinder-head stud in an aluminum engine block. DO NOT overtighten!
- It would require more weight further forward to compensate for the tungsten that would be missing from the hole, and,
- IMHO it is not necessary, if you follow the installation instructions and use thread-locker.
Here are the recommended installation instructions:
As in any French-grip pommel, the TungstenFencing STP screws on to the tang of the blade, behind the grip.
Many fencers attempt to tighten a pommel almost to the point where the tang will break, to avoid loosening while fencing. This is only likely to be a problem for "extreme" pommelers, who grip the pommel as much as the grip, and thus put a great deal of torque on the pommel. Most fencers will never experience an issue with this pommel loosening in use (unlike the Schermasport) because the friction of the aluminum cone against the grip will be enough to keep the pommel from loosening.
Overtightening is a Really, Really, Really bad idea with the TungstenFencing STP, since the blade tang screws into the aluminum cone portion, rather than a harder metal. If you attempt to make the TungstenFencing STP super-tight on the tang, you could strip its threads, rendering the pommel useless. Tighten only bare-hand tight, with a wrench to hold the blade: that does not mean as hard as your hand can possibly twist.
If you should over-tighten the STP and strip its threads which can be repaired by inserting an M6x1 Helicoil. If you strip the threads, please contact me, and I will help you make it right. I have a staged plan to address the issue if this is an issue for more than a few ham-fisted users, but each of the options would add to the manufacturing cost. That's the reason I need the feedback from purchasers, and not unsupported opinions from others.
It is strongly recommended that you keep maximum length on the tang, so that the maximum number of threads engage the aluminum cone. There are approximately 28 threads (1-1/8") inside the cone, and an absolute Minimum of twelve threads (1/2") inside the pommel is recommended.
There are two approaches to mounting the STP on the tang without over-tightening:
- Use a low- or moderate-strength thread-locking liquid, such as Loc-Tite. Loc-tite 222(Purple) or 242(Blue) is specifically recommended. These compounds essentially turn into firm nylon after anaerobic pressure-setting (like a slow superglue), and keep the threads from loosening under any sort of vibration by filling the microscopic gaps between screw and nut.
To use thread-lockers, put a drop or two into the hole of the pommel, rather than on the tang. This pushes the liquid into the hole when you screw in the tang.
Do not use Maximum-strength (Loc-Tite Red or Green) thread-locker, as these versions require heat to remove.
- IFF you find that the pommel loosens with use when using only thread-locker, use both thread-locker and a lock-nut to keep the pommel from unscrewing.
Place the locknut on the tang, and tighten the nut with a wrench as tight as you like, using thread-locker, then (again using thread-locker) screw the pommel hand-tight onto the tang until it is in firm contact with the locknut. Then, loosen the locknut against the pommel, approximately 1/8-1/4 turn, to hold the pommel in place. When the time comes to remove the pommel, loosen the lock-nut first (i.e. tighten the nut on the tang away from the pommel) then unscrew the pommel.
Last edited by EldRick; 06-28-2010 at 04:14 PM.
Make your pistol-grip a real Orthopedic grip, with a balancing weight from TungstenFencing.com
My products are for competitive fencers, not beginners. At that level, not everyone is that price-sensitive about their sport, and this is unique, and not something that will break or require maintenance, unlike an FIE blade at $160.
I expect that if fencers find any advantage in this and my next product, they will sell just fine.
The Euro right now is acting crazy and its an expensive kind of crazy.
Shipping from Europe is up in cost about 14% from last year
Homeland Security is requiring all blade imports to be taxed at about 17% right now and that does not include a broker fee if you have to get one.
Buckle up, becasue these things are going to keep going up and up until something breaks loose.
Gary Spruill
Originally Posted by DangerMouse
I don't know where you buy your blades, but you need to find a new supplier. I've never paid more than about $125 for a BF.
Update: the OBWone should be in my hands within two weeks.
Pricing about the same as the STP. I won't know for sure until I get the invoice with shipping costs.
No overtightening issues, as it will be in two pieces like a clamshell, with a couple of screws in the tungsten to locate and hold it while you fix it permanently to the grip with epoxy. I'll start a new thread on installation when I receive them.
Last edited by EldRick; 04-16-2010 at 04:31 PM.
Make your pistol-grip a real Orthopedic grip, with a balancing weight from TungstenFencing.com
No overtightening issues, as it will be in two pieces like a clamshell, with a couple of screws in the tungsten to locate and hold it while you fix it permanently to the grip with epoxy. I'll start a new thread on installation when I receive them.
Why a permanent design like that as opposed to something more akin to a normal ortho pommel?
Well, there is nothing threaded to fasten it to, and there is no such thing as a "normal ortho pommel". The OBWone has to fasten to the tail of a whole spectrum of different pistol-grips, all of which have very different dimensions on the tail-extension.
If the OBWone isn't unique and the first of its kind, I've made a terrible mistake...
Last edited by EldRick; 04-17-2010 at 06:55 PM.
Make your pistol-grip a real Orthopedic grip, with a balancing weight from TungstenFencing.com
Well, there is nothing threaded to fasten it to, and AFAIK, there is no such thing as a "normal ortho pommel". It has to fasten to the tail of a whole spectrum of different pistol-grips, all of which have very different dimensions on the tail-extension.
If the OBWone isn't unique and the first of its kind, I've made a terrible mistake...
OK, I was picturing this as being more or less exactly like a standard pommel nut, just made of tungsten to move the balance further back. Obviously then, the whole business about epoxy and permanent installation was raising red flags. So it's attaching to the very rear of the grip?
Last edited by JacoKierkegaard; 04-16-2010 at 08:39 PM.
Think of a flat water-smoothed stone, attached to the tail end of the beavertail part of an orthopedic grip.
The idea is to put a counterweight aft, at the point where it will do the most good to balance the generally-miserable 3-4" out-in-front-of-the-guard balance point of a pistol-grip fencing weapon.
It's not a pommel, it's a counterweight.
More details and pix in couple of weeks......
Make your pistol-grip a real Orthopedic grip, with a balancing weight from TungstenFencing.com
Think of a flat water-smoothed stone, attached to the tail end of the beavertail part of an orthopedic grip.
The idea is to put a counterweight aft, at the point where it will do the most good to balance the generally-miserable 3-4" out-in-front-of-the-guard balance point of a pistol-grip fencing weapon.
A "pommel-nut" is not a pommel, it is simply what is normally called a "coupling nut" or "extension nut". In some designs it uses an Allen wrench to tighten, rather than a hex socket wrench. http://www.mcmaster.com/#hex-coupling-nuts/=6pe1nc
A pommel serves two purposes: it extends a French grip for more reach, and it counter-balances the weight of the blade.
A real pommel on an ortho grip is not legal for use in fencing. If you have an orthopedic grip, you may not have a pommel.
As to making a tungsten nut to fasten an orthopedic grip to the tang of a blade, that would only weigh a few grams, and would be far too small and too close to the guard to be of any value for balance.
So, to answer your questions, No, I do not have any plans to develop a "tungsten ortho pommel".
Last edited by EldRick; 04-17-2010 at 08:50 PM.
Make your pistol-grip a real Orthopedic grip, with a balancing weight from TungstenFencing.com
I've experimented with making lead inserts for orthopedic grips. I'm not sure most people would notice the difference, but I may be looking for some beta testers soon.
Think of a flat water-smoothed stone, attached to the tail end of the beavertail part of an orthopedic grip.
The idea is to put a counterweight aft, at the point where it will do the most good to balance the generally-miserable 3-4" out-in-front-of-the-guard balance point of a pistol-grip fencing weapon.
It's not a pommel, it's a counterweight.
More details and pix in couple of weeks......
Does it look similar to the modified russian grip you posted here earlier?
How much does the tungsten weigh? Where is the balance point after installing it?
Originally Posted by DangerMouse 
